Rex1029

Thanks for the heads up... This is a great timing... (I have been working for about a week redoing the areas with the white walls from scratch.... my system kept hanging up, and crashing during navmesh generation, so EVERYTHING has been by hand... ) (*eyeroll at the complications.*) I will look into the tutorial, and see what is going on. Hopefully it will have info I haven't looked into already, and allow me to resolve the issue on another level. (Maybe allow another facility, and use the one I have worked on recently for it, and then have both.) :smile: I will let you know what the results are. :smile: Thanks for the information. :smile: === Edit : I have tested it, and found that the Portal markers were damaged in the copy of the one cell. They (The portal markers) were still there, but only had a 1 way link, which stopped them from working. When I deleted the portals, made new ones, and linked them together, the one cell worked properly, without white walls. That looks like the answer I was needing (at least in part. Looking at the other cells (the areas that I added on to), they didn't have room markers at all, so they were not linked by any form of markers (Room or portal) THAT was apparently the problem, according to the tutorial, and trial from the other room. I will see if I can get that working right. Regardless if it is fully successful or not, this seems to be the direction I needed to go in. === Re-Edit : The attempt to work with the other cells was Successful. This was EXACTLY what I needed. I did have to look at the tutorial a few times to verify a few steps, but the white walls are gone. Elianora : Thank you VERY much for the information. Have a nice day. :)

Ok, found ONE other thing, that will be a factor... I was using a series of lights, specifically the magic light spell with the graphic attached. (Entry : 'LightSpellLightStatic' ) This caused a minor reoccurance of the walls disappearing in the NEW mod cells I have been doing, in limited areas. (In the cave and mine tile sets) ... No heavy white walls in any location, however. I removed these light sources, and it works fine in the new cells, without issue. The missing walls are gone, and graphics with the walls are back. I removed the light sources of that style in the heavily problematic zone, and the white walls are STILL there. Not sure what is going on with the other, but I found a similar issue with such. It is likely a combination of issues at this point... but it IS one to keep in mind, should people have problems with the walls disappearing. Will keep updated as I can find out info... (Hopefully I will find out what those white walls are... but we will see.)

Ok, as a heads up... I'm not sure what is going on, but these are my results so far. I have made a copy of a cell, and it formed a strange white wall (see above). In the belief that it might be something that copied wrong when I duplicated the cell, I duplicated the cell again. It happened again, in the exact same place. There is ... SOMETHING there... in all of the copies of that cell. I then made a new cell, and reconstructed the problem area by hand... And it does NOT give the wall, despite the area being identical for the graphics and lighting. The fact it has done this with three different duplicate cell attempts is leading me to believe that it actually IS something that is going on, where the duplicated cell is not being duplicated 100% properly. I have seen no sign of what it could be in the CK, so I can't address it in a proper manner.of just dealing with that singular issue. Accordingly, I am redoing ... Everything... from the affected cells. I am not sure what is going on, so I can't give more information than I have... but if you simply wish to duplicate a cell, and refurbish it... Heads up! The duplicate cell function isn't working properly in all cases. You may be able to get everything there in the CK, but you may end up with white walls, where you don't want them. Spread the word.

No... I do not have SPO installed. I don't have any other lighting mods involved either. Assuming for a moment that this is the same/similar issue, however, what indicators would I be looking for in this? Is it something I can find in CK? Or would I have to look in TESVEdit for it? or ??? ... I am trying to rule out the possibility for two things to end up doing the same thing, from separate sources of influence.

I found another detail that is interesting... IF I go into the CK, I Can get it to show indirectly. If I go to the spot, and have a light there, it will make a hard line where the grey wall is at. I need to look at it as if I am looking at bright lights, but it still shows up as a place where light doesn't pass. ALSO... for trial purposes, I tried to duplicate the cell again, from the original. If I look at the Original, it doesn't have the hard divide, which I mentioned. If I look at the further duplicate, it DOES have that hard line, so it's ... somehow... something that is put in by the duplication process. The copied cell now acts just like the one that I currently have the grey walls on, when it comes to lighting... Any ideas?

I have been dealing with an ongoing graphics issue. I am trying to figure out what is going on with it. Any help will be appreciated. -- Issue : The issue appears in multiple cells, in multiple dungeons. Some deal with cells I have made from scratch, but most deal with cells I have modified. Alternatively, I have also had the SAME issue in unmodified cells, from the base game, specifically from the cave with the Witches (Companion line)... and from the basement area from Goldenglow (Thief line). It is also happening extensively to an edited couple of cells I have, based on Pinewatch. (Those edited areas are where the pics below are from.) It seems a white/grey wall appears, blocking vision of what is on the other side. Alternately, there are also issues where in some cases, I see the same "Grey wall", but I can see things on the other side, like people or arrows on the ground, down the hall, who I shouldn't be able to see, due to stairs, closed doors, and the like in between me and them Screenshots of Issue : You will see the "World" beyond this frame. Notice, the guy laying on the "Floor" nearby, who was shot, and in the distance, the people standing in mid air, in two groups... Take 2 steps forward, however, and you see this : Note, how you have a passage, leading down stairs. No one is visible, let alone the guy at the bottom of the stairs, or the people in the far distance. Also notice this other pic, looking at an angle, in the same spot. You see a passage, and a couple of the people... AND structures in the distance... when all you SHOULD see is a solid wall. If we look in the other direction, however... in the same spot : We see no end of the passage, but LOTS of structure further in on the dungeon, which we shouldn't see. In truth, what we SHOULD see, and will when we step a few more feet, is a 3 way intersection, that dead ends (It wouldn't let me send the other file, but it's solid walls. === Suffice to say, this is annoying. I look, and see nothing in the Navmesh. I see nothing different in the editor. It's a constant thing, performing in specific locations, without issue. It does such regardless of lighting selections (Be it assigned lighting, or even none at all) It does this in easily duplicated positions, so it is a constant. I have tried to do the ATI graphics fixes, and not found any resolution here. (Although I HAVE found glitches that forced a new OS Reinstall... (*Grumbles at that one*) It has done this in SOME places, between multiple reinstalls of Skyrim, It has done this in the XP and the Vista OS (reinstalled fresh each time.) It has done such regardless of graphic mod, and driver used. === I am out of things I know to try. I AM willing to credit it to a 'Possibility of' glitches in installs, but with over eight different installs of Skyrim, on multiple installs of two different OS, with repeated results in steady, reliable positions each time, I am thinking it is something simple, that I am simply overlooking, due to a lack of info. I have looked at the various things on google, and not found commentary on this issue... so I am out of other options to try. Anyone know what is going on, and more importantly, have a solution?

For the sake of completion... I have found the resolution.. since no one helped here. I figure I would leave the answer I found. (BIG Thanks to those who answered when I tried to probe such in private messages. :) ) Speech aspects. 1) Use TESVEdit... NOT TESVSnip. 2) Load the mod by itself. 3) When it's loaded... .....Right click on the mod. .....Go down to Options. .....Go to Click the option "Generate SEQ file" Master File 1) Use TESVEdit 2) Load the mod by itself. 3) Go to the "File Header" section under the mod. 4) Right click on "Record Flags" 5) Click on "Edit" 6) Click the "ESM" box. 7) Click to "ok" the changes. 8) Exit the program properly. It will ask you to resave the file. Click "Ok" -- It turns out that TESVSnip does NOT work for this properly! I used it, and it failed each time. TESVEdit DOES work with this. Thanks to Arthmoor for the info. :)

Ok, getting irked here... I have been making a mod. It has a lot of NPC's and a few minor quests, built around a new structure. Several of the lesser quests are delivery quests. (Simple show up, drop off, and return) All throughout this process, I have had problems with the NPC's talking. They don't want to talk to me at all, outside of base, vanilla dialogue. === Details : I have MANAGED to talk to a few of the npc's, but only on the base dialogue level. When I try to do the quest, the quest has not succeeded in starting naturally. (I put all three on start automatically, for debugging reasons..) (Has not worked.) -- (I had to hard code it into dialogue for the NPC giver, which has brought about other issues.) -- (I gave the speaker triggers so it will step the quest forward, so I know they are started at the time of accepting.) -- (I go straight to the destination, and the guy doesn't speak to me, at all. There are two targets. One is an NPC I made, and one is Calcelmo. Both are non-responsive.) -- Now, I FINALLY found the information on the SEQ files... I have generated about 15 of these things... NONE of them have worked. -- I have used the online one. -- I have used TESVEdit -- I have used the Console. ====== None of them do work, or have worked. === Quest is linked for dialogue with the NPC. === I have tried multiple saves. (No such luck) === I have tried waiting.. and talking later... ( No such luck ) I have tried to talk to other people, and then to them again ... (no such luck.) I have tried multiple SEQ files. (Doesn't seem to have ANY change in effect)... (No such luck) I have reinstalled the whole of Skyrim, and CK, ... (No such luck) I have tried a new character... (No such luck) --- The only responses I get are the Vanilla ones that are normal. Any ideas?

Ok, I am working on a Mod. (house style, plus other things.) I am deciding to make the base thing an ESM, and then do any expansions as ESP's for it, so I can keep things nice, and tidy. My problem is, I have the ESP in a roughly finished state. (Still need minor details for some of the characters to be added, but the house itself is ready, and complete.) I have tried to make this an ESM file, through TESVEdit, TESVSnip, And Wyre Bash. Each time, I tried to make an ESM for it. Each time, it seems to work, to a degree... The problem is, however, whenever I do it, the NPC's I stop relating the scripted conversations I have provided them. They will talk if they are assigned as an innkeeper, or the like, but when I ask them for more info, that option isn't there at all. When I have it as an ESP, it does seem to work with the scripted conversations. I even had the ESM at top, and bottom of the order list to rule out conflicts. ... So... Does anyone know how to convert this over to an ESM, and have it KEEP the conversation possibilities? ... I am having quest stuff involved, and would hate to not have it work, after all the work I have done so far..

But, you don't account for the possibility that they will go to the hot springs... Nor do you account for places where such would be suitable. There are mods that add baths, and there is a number of areas where such cold would not be an issue. Eldergleam Sanctuary is a good example of this type of place, as is everyone inside the house that is properly heated. :) As I said, I would call those a middle layer, not an under-layer level of clothing. As we know, when those were popular, and where they are still used, the weather is very cold. The people in cold areas dress in multiple layers. Not just 1 or 2, but often 4 or more, and that doesn't include their normal outer layer to protect from outside cold/snow/etc... The bikini style would be layer 1. That would be layer 2, in my opinion. The displayed layers are often layer 1 (nude-ish) and 5 (full outer layer) .. the game doesn't show the other layers normally. The thing to remember, however, is that if you are doing a child character, the child dovakin doesn't have parents looking over their shoulder, mandateing the clothes worn at any particular time, or what clothes to be worn. As such, they can dress, or not dress, as they like (according to personal preference of the player). In other such fantasy games, there is also another effect that would work to explain this. If you look at D&D, there is a spell called "Endure Elements" ... it basicly allows you to survive in extreme temperatures without issue. By this I mean the temp range of about 120 to -30 or so, without problems (yes, loincloth whipping in the artic winds, with snow up to the knees, and being perfectly fine, no goosebumps or anything.) IF you happen to be in a extremely cold environment, it seems reasonable to me that it would be the cost effective thing to get this type of device/item/tattoo/enchantment/protection on something as early as possible. For your own example, that would seem a better investment for protecting the kids than buying thick, heavy clothes for 20 years. (do you pay for an enchantment on the kid, that works all the time and increases survival chances on a constant basis, regardless of the clothing worn, or do you pay more than that on clothes that could get damaged, torn, removed, or be outgrown, and cost more than that in the long run? Which ensures the kid's survival more? :) ) Also, in this game's setting, you can have a fire effect on each hand, and use that to keep your body warm. If you wish hypothermia effects, you can always download a mod for such, or you can classify that all the people here, as a matter of casual fact, have gotten such a enchantment at some time to protect against such problems. (*shrugs*) ... In such an environment, such an effect would be in such high demand that there would be a vested interest to have at least 4 people in each village to know it... if not everyone in the village. :) I agree that both would be possible in this game's setting. I would say, however, that the mid-layer you described would be better as just that... a MIDDLE layer. Have it be something that can be put on independently of other things. Remember with the realism aspect... In the game setting, Magic IS real. It would be classified as Real, and would be planned on realisticly for the characters in the game. Magic would be a force that many count on, just like electricity or fire is here. With the effects being magical in nature, and understandable for the situation, and supported in the game history (look at the protection from cold effects, after all, that get put on armor) ... it would not be unreasonable, or unheard of, to be a valid possibility in this case. :) With that in mind, I really don't mind the bare aspects of a midriff or the like on some characters. Add that to the natural resistance to cold that nords have, and it's a simple thing in my mind that isn't a big deal, honestly. As for the underwear : As for why it seems painted on, that is fairly simple to account for... It HAS to be for most things of a modest nature. If it is a external mesh, there is always a possibility for a clipping issue, and possibly slipping through when moveing. Effectively painting it on the torso was the easiest way to ensure it didn't slip through and offend the easily offended. If the undies can't be removed, and they are there, and no slips are possible between body and undies, then noone can claim that they are promoting nudity, any more than a beach does. (*shrugs*)

well, if you are scared that you will muck it up, there is a simple solution to that. Copy it in 2 different (maby 3) locations. That way, you tinker with one, and if it works, you copy that modified form for backup. If you royally louse it up, say "Ok, that didn't work. Start from scratch." ... Then you erase the one you just worked on, and copy the backup again, and start from square one. :) Face looks ok. The catcher would be setting up the full head size in relation to the body, and then getting all the other bits and bobs working with the new head (alternate noses, eyebrows, brow ridges, chins, scars, warpaints, etc...) so they don't look the same again. Agreed on the power thing, to a degree. The catch is, so many people want to eliminate the risk of an activity by trying to either hide or get rid of everything that reminds of it, and that doesn't work. The physical body is still there, and isn't going anywhere. When it comes to the attraction thing, however, that is a personal opinion. It can be anything, including the power, the body form, the kid's hairstyle, or anything else that makes that connection. I see that as a personal issue of the individual discussed, and each is different. As such, I won't say that they aren't attracted to the body. It would be the same type of thing as the person with a foot fetish, just a different body part stressed. I have supprised a few people with a simple tangent of that line. I said (basicly) to them "What would you say if I told you that you could come over to my house, but you had to wear armor when you do? ... You would probably wonder what is going on at my house that they need armor. If I told you 'nothing, I just want you to wear armor while there.' ... You would probably arch an eyebrow, and not show up anytime soon... I stand by the position that ALL Clothing is Armor. It is designed to cover and protect you. Some keep you warm. Others keep you cool. Others cushion or protect against projectiles, or let you take in information properly, allowing you a protected status while guarding your eyes, or other such things." "Ahh, I found a flaw in your statement. A T-Shirt doesn't guard anything, and it easily torn, or soaked through. How is that armor?" "Simple... Some people are over-paranoid about silly things... Not every T-Shirt is thin. It traps a thin layer of air around the body for simple temperature regulation. Other side is a tangent that most churches push to almost paranoid levels... Ever hear of protecting your modesty? ... I never said all threats armored against would threaten injury to the body. I stand by my statement, and it is still classified as armor. How does that layer NOT protect your modesty? and finally, as you said, besides your modesty and that VERY minor thermal layer, what else WOULD it seriously protect at all times OTHER THAN your modesty? Why is your modesty so special that it needs special armor at all times? " :P ... they didn't really have a reply to that one, outside of opinion, or personal preference. :) :P Now, as to the adult gear, I would say that would be dependant on the individual playing. There have been many historical cases of young kids that sneak things from parents closets, or stores, or other such things, and use that gear themselves, even when young (rangeing from simple magazines to actual toys and clothes of varied types). I understand it being last priority, but I would let the player decide that one. They are ultimately, this character's parents, in a technical manner. As I think Bill Cosby said "I brought you into this world, I can take you out, and make another one just like you!" The player can do that with every character, so they are the parents of the character, in a technical manner. I would be concerned on the naked kid running around as well, but that doesn't address the possibilities in a hot-tub or in the house, or in a hot-spring (like the argonian retreat in the example earlier)... They would be suited just fine to that environment without clothes. As for the underwear, I disagree with you on that. I would say a thin, string bikini style would be better suited in this game as a primary underwear layer. Why? : The wool underwear like that is TOO extensive for a proper "Underwear" level. They would want to protect that. This would bring a need for a thin Under layer to that to protect from accidents from ruining the whole garment. They would use a garment that was easy to make, fast to make, and had minimal hastles. Add to that the fact that kids are in constant growth, and that they could be tied, untied, and adjusted for a proper fit until it either was totally unuseable, or in proper place, and it's a better decision for a "underwear" aspect. Technically, what you showed would be better suited as a middle-wear layer, maby between the thin underwear, and a outer layer of pajamas. The people of skyrim would be VERY focused on protecting the proper, heavy gear against unreasonable wear and tear that will damage it, and as much as kids go through clothes, constant skid marks in thick winter gear would be "Unreasonable wear and tear that will damage it" in most people's opinion, along the same line as skid marks in a winter coat. It's a LOT easier, and a lot less effort, and less money down the drain to toss a rag that was a bikini bottom, than to toss a set of quilted pants/shorts. And kids aren't known for having the most significant control of such processes. See the point? :) Also, it would be easier to work with in some other clothing. It would allow a child to have bare arms, or a bare mid-drift area, and have a degree of flexibility for areas that would be otherwise exposed. Too much already there, and you might as well just lock them in a bunny suit with just the face exposed... Sure, might be fun for a bit, You might get a surge of people getting it around easter, but people would get tired of the body form, and it's graphical restrictions, and drop it really quick. (*shrugs*)

If you didn't do the full aspect yourself, I would say it would be bad form, and possibly have a risk of copyright issues. I would avoid such when possible. :) -- Idea : For the Head : I had thought at one point that we might be able to do a bit by resizing the default head mesh, and then resizing the other features, like noses, brows, lips, eyes, hair, etc... to the same scale. If we could do that, we could assign them EASILY to the new head, and go from there. That would give us a fully functional head, with full scars, noses, and options for the head. (Even if for just vanilla character options). That would give options to edit the kids that are already in the game to be more unique as well, so they aren't all just tossed out of a cloning chamber. :) ) Option 2 on this would be... If we could get a skeleton to recognise the head that is normal default, but the full body skeleton is scaled down to the normal level of a child, and the head of the child is proportionally larger (as normal), we MIGHT be able to use the same head, and just change the skeleton scale. That would allow different kid forms, to use the same head, without swapping things out between age levels... Just put the head on the body, and have it scale the head/neck accordingly. (*shrugs*) ... Not sure if that's possible, but I do know that you can setscale a head/body, and all the markings will scale accordingly. If the head can be setscaled on the body, by way of skeleton config, it might be a solution we need, and trim a lot of problems overall. :) Just an idea I had a while back. -- Animations : No experience. If I can't edit a mesh, there is no reason for me to even try and sweat an animation based off of them. (*shrugs*) -- As for the argonians... The catcher is, we don't know if they are cold or warm blooded, for sure. We know dragons will survive in the cold, fully naked, without a issue... They are lizards of a form, but are not cold blooded (they can't be, or they would freeze on the mountain tops). ... Accordingly, we don't know if the Argonians share that same aspect. They are known to be in deep water also. Underwater species are also prone to have a protective layer of something under the scales (skin, fat, whatever) that helps to regulate heat in cold temperatures of the deep (something needed if you go deep in the water, where such IS definitely needed after just a hundred feet or so). If you got gills and are that height, you have likely developed to going down that deep when possible. :) The catcher is : They probably wouldn't care about the lower regions either... It's just another part of them, like the hand, or a crest on the head. That means that they often would, at most, bother with a loincloth at most. Now, true, they would be inclined for dressing up if it's too cold for them, but we really don't know their solid limits. As for the Hot springs, I do agree. That would be a nice thing that they would be attracted to. -- For the Khajit, a 4 breasted model would be possible, and able to be reasonably done. Not wanting to run afoul of certain rules, you might want to check some pics for yourself. There are some tastefully versions out there to look at for a reference. You can find some with various drawn werewolf pictures. You can also find some with some decent special effects pics from movies and the like. Real pic Example: The Movie ... "The Warrior and the Sorceress" Most I have seen have had multiple sets, one under the other, and the top set is large, perhaps a C cup, at most. The second set would be under it, partially overlapping, and be MABY an A cup, and then any other sets would be flat with the torso. I got several pics, but they might violate posting rules, so not wanting to get into such that much. :) The thing to remember about the "Strange" look is... It's based on what you are familiar or comfortable with. If they are like that normally, it's normal, and they won't care. If you never saw or dealt with them before, they would look ALL STRANGE... if you are around them all the time, it's "Oh, that again? ... whatever... Ok, back to work." (*smiles and shrugs*) As for the bra(s), I disagree. Hair will provide a bit of protection for them, and as such, it would be given about as much concern as one's wrist. Sure, if it's extreme, you may want to get a long glove to cover, but with cover there already, or very close nearby, it will likely not be a concern for them unless they are agreeing to dress for the sake of the human modesty, and keeping the peace with them. I personally think they would honestly go nude, unless they are going to be around people... and even then, with them having their natural fur, they wouldn't care if they didn't either, if it's strictly up to them, and not a social or convienience issue. --- Now for the question that rings true, and is a real hot-spot for topic and conflict. If the child body for the cat is mostly the same as the child body for the humans, and we don't put clothing on the cat, why put it on the humans as a default? They would see the basics on the Khajit anyways... so if we use the same type of form, then we might as well not worry about a band.... Of course, if we don't put on a band, bikini, or some other form of cover, that might be a red flag for people, and get certain issues involved. I know that Nexus doesn't agree with such child bodies being posted here without modesty factors due to Porn and Pedophilia laws, and the concerns they have related to such... but if you do it for one race (no top for khajit), then why not for all? ... But, if you talk to the right people, and look at the definitions of things, Porn and pedophilia deals with sexual activity. If a kid runs around naked, and isn't involved in such, then it's not TECHNICALLY in that area of interest. On the other hand, if you talk to the right people who have a foot fetish, they can see a shoe catalogue, and that could be porn for them, thanks to the interests they have, so should the high heel mods be considered "Porn" and classified accordingly as "Adult" mods? ... (*smiles*) ... Then, the question would arrise, would you want to make 2 versions of it, a everyone naked, and a everyone modest version... and then release one here, and the other elsewhere, where such would be accepted ... then the question comes "If we do that with another site, why make one for here? it's just more work to do both." ... See the catcher? Lots of legal loopholes, landmines, complications and questions that have to be asked and figured out before it's all done. But... the bikini/band/pastie/modesty cover is a texture issue at it's core... We would need meshes at first, and we don't even have that resource available right now. (*smiles and shrugs*)

@Behughes ... You are correct that you can set height for each race, but EVERY individual for that race is exactly that height, no exception. .. A teen is constantly growing. There is a LOT of range between 13 and 19 height wise, and that would not be able to be covered by a single race (and yes, each stage would need to be a race, so you would have to have multiple races for different stages to cover the different settings. .. Also, if you want to be technical and realistic, you would have issues with education, depending when you hopped out and did stuff. A 8 year old Breton character is expected to have certain things that he has been taught by his parents/society. He might know a little bit about the magic resistance stuff, or have a little bit of magic training, but he wouldn't be equivilant to a full blown adult. The 10 year old redguard child may have some minor combat training, but he wouldn't be equal to an adult. Each of them would have modifications to the race, and mandate certain things for educational background. A person who wants a full realistic thing would need to account for this information in SOME manner. (Does the person who starts a 8 year old character completely skip that info and never learn it? Do they have to learn it from another of their race when they get old enough? Do you have a fountain of ageing, or some effect that gives it to them automaticly when they choose to age? ... ) And what about the person that wants physical development mid way? If you start a 8 year old female Imperial, she won't have much of a chest. If you age her to adulthood, however, she may end up with something between a AA cup, and a "OMFG!" cup, depending on the body mods that some people have loaded. (* Smiles and shrugs*) Each stage would have to modify such things, and I haven't found a way to edit such in game with a variable. The problem is, we need a limited character edit mid way, and they don't provide that in the game. The problem with other races as children still hasn't been addressed also. We can't even get the resources for the basic kids to work, let alone do anything more than set the scale for the kids of the non-human. If we got a fully proper mesh set (head and body) to work for the kids with the humans, we could try to adapt it to the others, but without that, we simply don't have what is needed. (*shrugs*) As a note, base combat range for empty hand is also set up in the race file, so if you set scale from 1 to, say 8... You would still have your normal range.... so, as an example, You have a pigmy race, which is .5 of normal human. You setscale 8... You are now 4 times larger than any human... but you still have the arm range of 1/2 of a human, so any human of normal size would still be able to beat you senseless without issue by "Staying out of your range" (*shrugs*) ... strange, yeah, I know... but that's the basics. ===== @AuroraMoon I would be glad to get your insight on things Let me know what is going on with the CK, and I would be glad to work with you on things. Some things I can do a lot, others I can't, but I will let you know what I can. Admittedly, the meshing/texture is one thing that I know WHAT is going on with, but I don't really know HOW to DO anything WITH such... Every time that I have tried to do any texture/meshing, I have only met failure, and that is over 80 times, on Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim. (yes, I have been trying to get into such for a while. Something just isn't clicking and wanting me to work with such.) (*shrugs and smiles*) The issue I seee from the child to adult stage... There are kids that develop sooner than others, true, but most 8 year old girls don't have chest devleopment yet of any significance, when compared to boys of the same age. The way the meshes are set up, the meshes for the breast are set into the item. (another issue where the artists are failing the flat chested body community, like kids, Flat chested adults, and proper Argonian/Lizard racial types that don't deal with such. (*shrugs*)) Use them, and even the youngest kid could end up with an OMFG! cup when wearing the clothes, even though there is nothing under it. Now on a realism tangent, I DO agree with having a BIT of a cup for girls for things like armor.It allows them to grow, and not need to get new armor automaticly for a proper fit. You can always fill it otherwise with padding so it doesn't flop all over on the form. Like with armor today, little suzie can have a suit of armor, or uniform for a combat class, even though she is flat chested, and undeveloped yet, a A cup could be built in for her size. That cup could be padded, and add a bit more protection than normal, and if she gets to where the armor is tight, she can always take out the padding, and wear it normally, and still have it fit, no prob. With that logic in mind, I don't mind armor for kids having a minor cup to even the little girl versions. Not unreasonable for teens who are in between growth spurts either. :) --- As a FYI on heads : The way they did the larger scale for the head for the kids is that they used a fully different head than adults. It is a larger head, and as such, the hairstyles, eyes, face features, and misc graphics (like scars, paints, etc...) for the adults don't fit with it. The crippled head set also doesn't save the changes for the kids that are saved for adults. As such, if you do this, there will be a complication... You would need to have either, a way to reset the face when it ages to the next step, or assign a script to replace certain assigned settings with assigned others for the new face, assigning a new head for the new body. (something I haven't seen fully done yet without a setracemenu style command, which would add more options, including race change and gender change by default.) Such is a problem, however, since it would restrict new war-paints, scars, or other such things from being used for the character, if it is script based. ===== Steps : I have basicly broken this down into steps already of what is needed, tool and resource wise.... 1) Working child body set (mesh & Texture) (just the body for human) 2) Working child head (mesh & Texture) (just the head for human) 3) Working child Misc items (mesh & Texture for human) (scars, war paint, noses, chins, eyes, etc...) (This is the first complete point. This stage is also when the items are copied for a vampire race of that size/form) 4) Once we get the child set working right, we THEN go to the near-human (the elves & Orcs) Ideally, it should be as simple as swapping out a body tinting, adding ears, exchanging the heads, and a few other minor things to make them fit... but I have not been able to figure out where they store the ear meshes in game on a natural thing. If we use the same aspects as the other children sets, we SHOULD be able to use MOST of the misc items for the elves as well.(*shrugs*) (This is the second complete point. This stage is also when the items are copied for a vampire race of that size/form) 5) Once we get the humanoid set done, then we go to the animalistic. We use the child body to be a template for the hair/scales and other features of exemption of the race in question (argonian & khajit) (which order is irrelevant at that point). 6) Get a working child head for the non-human sets that would be child level of development (perhaps not as many spines or crests for argonian, or smaller ones that haven't fully developed yet, or add more "Baby Fat" for the kittens facial features to give a simulation of their youth. 7) Working with non-human Misc Items (mesh & Texture) (Scars, war paint, noses, chins, etc...) (Third Complete point. Again, we make vampires for that form. ) 8) Work with armor conversions to adapt established armors to an appropriate cup size as desired. (Ongoing project that will never finish, due to the number of armors that are constantly made.) === That would have to be done for each stage we do, so we would be looking at trying to do this as much as possible with reuseable things that can cover all the subsequent stages. The facial features would be the problematic thing, however, due to the child scale vs. adult scale, and the fact that many child faces become more angular and often develop significantly between, say 10 and 20. If we can get the basics here done, mesh & Texture, then we can adapt things accordingly. -- Then, the uncomfortable questions for many come up... The problem is, contrary to the modesty comfort level of many, then comes up with the society issues. Argonians are hatched from eggs, they don't get nursed like kittens do. As a society, they shouldn't have an issue with the modesty of the torso that many have in the human societies since they aren't developed there, and the chest has no significance that way. With that in mind, the question has to be asked, is the young argonian female clothed on the top as a default part of the mesh/texture? if so, why? To make nice with the humans? That shouldn't be an issue if they go into their home and want to strip down. The clothes shouldn't be anything but a bane to them if they go into the water on a recreational basis, wanting to feel the water over their scales, and the compression of the clothes doing nothing but weight them down, and pushing their scales out of place, weakening their natural protection in the water. We would also have to eliminate the belly button from their mesh/form because there was no cord to form the button.. They had an egg. :) On the Khajit, another factor is there. They have a natural level of clothing, in the form of their body hair. Similar question to the argonian side. Why would they bother with other clothing when at home/relaxing ? I can see the urge to put on clothes when dealing with the "crazy, modest humans", but on their own, ... not so much so. The hair can protect even in cold weather. (some cats and dogs thrive with just their normal fur coat in the cold weather. Look at sled dogs in the north, as an example.) Why would they bother with thick clothing, even when dealing with cold weather? They would be even more likely to walk out into the snow in a pair of shorts and a T-Shirt at most. Should it be built into the mesh/texture? On the same tangent, the cat often has 6 teats to feed the full litter of kittens at the same time (3 tiers). Do you wish to have them all developed to the same stage stages? or just 2, like other humans? or develop 2 at a full level, 2 at a reduced, and 2 at a minimal? ... That is a modesty issue that most cats wouldn't share with humans... If you doubt that, ask your cat how modest they are. :) These are examples of the questions you will want to ask durring the project, and aspects that many people are already looking for in a realistic tangent, although most of these last questions are able to be put off by either not doing the beast races of argonian & Khajit... It's easy to assume that due to contact, lack of natural protective layer, and similarity of body form, that most elves and orcs will have similar modesty issues as the humans, thanks to contact and interaction with them for so long. :) ===== Guess now is good for a place to stop for now. There are other concerns as well, but this is a good start. Our first needed key need is a full blown, working child body & head mesh that we can use easily, that keeps proper scale of form. Without that, all of this is mostly pointless conjecture, or unsupported planning stages. :)

As for the weight slider being used as a Height/age slider : The game looks for that option for ALL characters. When it looks for it, it will effect the same thing on all characters, so no, it can't be repurposed for that on just kids. That said, if a person can make a NEW slider, that MIGHT be able to do a bit for height, but likely not for age. Why not age? The age issue has a LOT of options and possibilities built into it, and a lot of questions built into it. Needs for what you are asking : - a body that goes from a child, flat chest, up to ... say a b or c cup. (noone has made a fully flat chest, not even for argonians, who by all rights shouldn't even have mammary development for adults, let alone kids.) - A full working body mesh for kids that is designed in an ADULT manner. I make note of that word because the adult meshes do NOT allign with the child meshes. Child : hand cuts off about a inch above the wrist. Adult : Hand cuts off about 5-6 inches above the wrist. - Head mesh changer : This would change the size of the head from a larger equivilant, like a child has in relation to the body, to the normal size head that an adult has. If you want to have a young person, you would have to deal with that, and so far, nothing really changes the head size in a proper manner, in relation to the body, according to age. - Adaptive Body Skeleton : This would need to change the ratio as the child ages. This controls the full ratio of stuff, so anything that changes such a ratios height wise would have to play with the skeleton to some degree. - A fully proper, and working head : Such was a shortcut they made. The kids only have 1 face, that of a 'malechild'. (yes, even females have that 'malechild' face.) The mesh set used for them is also flawed, and shortcut. It was ment to only be a photo-style mesh, allowing you to see them, not edit them. With a properly working head/face, you will be able to adapt things, adding things like hairstyles, new eyes, scars, warpaints, dirt, eyebrow ridges, chins, noses, lips, etc... As it is, it is missing a layer that will record such changes. Without that layer, it won't recognize such changes, or be able to display such changes. It's the same issue that often gets brought up with vampire children, when their faces change. (*shrugs*) In all honesty, Kids were put in to the game for the simple reason that they didn't want the teasing to continue from Oblivion players. "You mean to tell me that it's been 200 years since the last game, and they STILL haven't figured out how to have a kid? WTF are they doing?" :P :) The kids were never made to be a playable race. I have been looking for a replacement body mesh for my mod for a LONG time now. Haven't found any graphical artists willing/able to even do a redo of the torso for a flat chest, or a redo of the torso/hand attach point so things would work properly. The best I have been able to do on fixing such is using "New Children" for the body, using the default heads, and then adding the female hand as a improvised hand replacement so we don't have floating hands. Feel free to check out my mod. The key reason why I haven't tried to do stuff on the graphical lines myself is because I can't edit such on my system. Can't afford the software that will definitely work, and can't get the free ones to work with meshes at all... (*shrugs*) Higher Magic Children Character http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=8234 I know that there are several mods out there that do child body changes, but I have not been able to get author permission to use their resources. Without that key step, I haven't done such with my mod. -- The BEST you could do with the current setup on the height thing would be a height change spell. Basicly have it be a in game Setscale command, and have it increase or decrease height accordingly. The problem is, it does it for the whole body, including the head, and when the kids are "Grown up" to full adult size, they look like their head was replaced in a pumpkin that was inflated at a helium factory. The head scale issue is what is the problem. Child body increase gets too big of a head, adult body shrunk results in a shrunken head effect. (*shrugs*) The only way I know to do such would be to assign a set of races with different bodies attributed to them, different head/faces for them all, and different skeletons for each, and have it automatically redo the sizes according to some event. Thing is, it wouldn't be possible to change up that form (that I know of) without having possibility to royally mess up the character stat wise. You would effectively need to change up the body in a manner similar to the vampire change. (*shrugs*) It's a good plan, and a good idea, and I have thought about it, but from what I have seen, the resources simply aren't there at this time to pull it off properly. I have thought about an older teen mod, but then the catcher is... there isn't enough significant change with the older teens and the young adults in the 20's who are full grown, so you might as well just do the change at the front end for the full spectrum of characters. The mid level teens are the largest area of flux. Their head/body ratio changes significanly due to growth, and would need different skeletons to pull off. Add to that that the height thing is fairly set per race, and it throws a monkey wrench into this. It's something I am looking for, and something I would like to get approval for on my mod, but so far, approval of such things has been lacking. (*shrugs*) Trust me, you aren't the only one who is looking on this tangent... The main reason it isn't out though is ... in a nutshell, lack of suitable resources, and permission to use them.

I found both of my mods on there, and have been fairly nice and casual about it up until now. I simply asked that they talk to me and tell me why they had my files on their site. That was about a week ago, and still no comment from them, and I got interested... Ok, Got a lead... For anyone with a FACEBOOK account, I found that they have a group. gmod.com I put a review, a comment, and a note on my wall describing their deeds. If you want, you can always complain there. It will either make them take notice, or put them on the pariah list from the bad reputation from others. ... Just an idea. :) Rex1029