Robbie922004

Generally speaking, it's kind of bad etiquette to make mod requests for something large-scale like this. Ask yourself these questions: 1) Why would somebody want to devote hundreds of hours to bringing your idea to life rather than one of their own? 2) What role would you play in helping bring your idea to life, or do you expect somebody else to do all the work? Instead, I would encourage you to try dipping your toes into the Creation Kit by starting small and accruing knowledge. You might not have the CK skills right now, but the only way to develop them is by breaking your teeth and learning. It's not advisable to start a large-scale project like this right out of the gate as your first real project, but why not start with a simple quest or a boss encounter? After that, try to spend some time learning the scripting system and seeing if you can achieve your goals that way. A great place to start is Darkfox127 on YouTube. He's has a huge number of tutorials that are insanely helpful for learning the ins and outs of the Creation Kit, and he's also one of the nicest people I've engaged with in the community. Good luck!

"Shaming"? You feel shame when a company offers you an optional service? If you don't want to buy it, don't buy it. The pop-up and timer is a little annoying and fair to complain about, but still pretty tiny in the grand scheme of things when you consider just how much you get from the Nexus for absolutely nothing in return.

In response to post #72145018. #72145208, #72145393, #72145468 are all replies on the same post. @logan1710 It's okay that that they don't want to add the feature, and it's okay that they believe in Vortex as a program the way it is. Absolutely no beef with Nexus for going in the direction they did. But just because I have no problem with their decision doesn't mean I want to use the program that is the result of those decisions. In this case, I definitely would not, and generally think other people should be informed of other options before they choose Vortex. On the other hand, there are definitely lots of folks who like Vortex and that's okay, too. It's fairly inconsequential at the end of the day, the only reason I posted at all is because I saw the news and genuinely think most users will have a worse experience with Vortex than other programs. I always want to see modding go as well as it can for anybody, new and old users alike, and believe strongly that better options exist elsewhere. But hey, I'm just one guy and people can make up their own minds after reviewing the choices for themselves.

In response to post #72143393. #72144508, #72144708, #72144743, #72144783, #72144978 are all replies on the same post. Yup, until this feature exists I see absolutely no reason to use Vortex over any other program + LOOT. Doing that gives you full manual control as well as automated sorting, while Vortex only allows for the latter. No tangible advantage.

EDIT: In fairness, I should clarify that this post is talking about Vortex for its use with Bethesda games (Elder Scrolls and Fallout). Since other games don't use load orders in the same way, this post does not apply to them. Vortex still has no method of simply and manually sorting mods without creating groups or LOOT rules. To be clear, basic load ordering is a built-in feature for every Bethesda game, and yet Vortex, a program designed to manage a load order, cannot do this. It's more of a front end for LOOT than a proper mod manager. If you are a new user, I would urge you to use one of the other and more robust mod management options available: Mod Organizer: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/1334/ Mod Organizer 2: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/6194 Nexus Mod Manager (community updated edition): https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases Or even Wrye for something a little simpler that still allows for manual control: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/1840/? On top of that, install LOOT, which is a powerful tool that automatically sorts your load order. If you choose a proper mod manager + LOOT, you have both the option to sort manually and quick automatic sorting. If you choose Vortex, you only have automatic sorting unless you fiddle with convoluted groups and LOOT rules. See the problem? Vortex doesn't give you the same degree of control, but carries with it no advantages that other mod managers can't already do when paired with LOOT. All of these programs also have significantly more functional user interfaces than Vortex, which wastes an absurd amount of space, resulting in constant scrolling through hilariously oversized lists. If you choose something other than Vortex, you won't regret it. The only way I'd recommend Vortex is if you are an absolute beginner who only plans to install a few mods, and is okay with relying entirely on automatic sorting, and even then I'd urge you to spend <10 minutes learning another mod manager over Vortex for best results. Also, the times I have tried Vortex have both resulted in my existing load order being nuked, which was a pain. If you have a game going and already use a different program, don't switch to Vortex unless you are absolutely ready to have to set everything up again. If you're setting up a new load order, obviously, this is not a concern.

In response to post #64251556. #64252306 is also a reply to the same post. When I installed and ran Vortex, it nuked my load order. That was quite a few versions ago, don't know if that's still a thing or not, but use at your own risk.

Vortex is more of a headache than running other mod managers in tandem with LOOT. I would highly recommend against using this if you're a new mod user. Try Wrye, MO, or NMM + LOOT instead, and save yourself some hassle. Manual load order adjustment is the most basic feature a mod manager can have, and Vortex doesn't have it. I know that you guys are committed to Vortex and, for some reason, this way of doing things. I just hope that you don't remove NMM completely to drive people to Vortex. I hope that you leave it up for download indefinitely.

You had me at free stuff.

So if LOOT rules are what govern load order, how does that work for games that aren't supported by LOOT? Load order is important with XCOM 2 mods for instance, but no LOOT support.

Changing load order mid-playthrough doesn't really matter unless you move something into a place where it conflicts with something else, and even then it should be fine once you put it back. Adding mods to current games is perfectly safe unless otherwise stated by the author, just like it's fine to buy the official DLCs mid-playthrough. Removing mods is what causes issues, not adding them or shuffling them around. The thing is that Vortex doesn't enforce a stable load order. I can still change my load order mid-game or otherwise using Vortex, and it doesn't prevent me from breaking my game. It just makes it more of a hassle to change my load order.

I don't have access to Vortex yet, so I may be talking out my butt, but I've ready every message posted so far and I've yet to see one person show one concrete, real world example where Vortex's method does not work, where Vortex's method is more cumbersome, etc. It's different. Trying to use it the way you used previous managers makes it cumbersome, but using as it is intended should work, with less user effort. Theoretically. Again, I don't have it. I'm just trying to get my head around it. But I don't see one concrete example where it does not work, where drag and drop ordering is needed. I don't think anybody is saying it doesn't work at all. I can't speak for everyone but what I'm saying is that it is significantly less convenient to have to go in and make a LOOT rule when you want to nudge something somewhere than just doing it like literally every other mod manager, and the games themselves. Having to set priorities for a large load order is very tedious. And again don't get me wrong, I'm a user of LOOT priority settings already. It's good for mainstays in my load order that I know I want in certain spots after a sort. It is not good for when you want to make a quick adjustment, test, and make another adjustment, etc. The thing is that right now using NMM (or Wrye, or MO, or even the game's own menus) I can use LOOT, set up my priorities, and then tweak from there. If things work after testing, I set up permanent priorities for them. Vortex doesn't make this step impossible, it just means I have to open the game or an external manager to do it. Another important thing is that when I'm done testing or making adjustments, if I goof up, I run LOOT again and everything is where it should be. With the new system I have to go manually remove the rules I've set up to get things back to where they were, instead of just not needing to set them up in the first place. At the end of the day, Vortex is not going to stop me from making those adjustments, it's just going to make it a lot more annoying and require me to use another program, be it the game or another manager. And if I have to use another program to manage mods, it defeats the entire point of a mod manager.

People are talking like the LOOT rules method and the manual ordering method of arranging your load order are somehow mutually exclusive. They are not. Even with Vortex installed as your only mod manager, you can go manually adjust your load order using the game's native UI. You can even use NMM to rearrange mods and it will be reflected in Vortex in real time from what I've been told. There is no reason for there to be an extra step required of opening the game or worse, an external mod manager, to do manually move mods around. It just puts an extra step on the end user. I make use of LOOT rules frequently with LOOT itself so I'm not a stranger to the system (even if I was new, it's a very simple system that takes no time to learn) and I don't need to adjust to the "learning curve". But it's an incredibly tedious alternative for when you just want to move one plugin to a certain spot. I wouldn't ever use that for when I'm bumping mods rapid-fire around my load order during testing, because it's just an overly convoluted method. Especially when I can just do it the easy way from NMM or the game itself instead. Rearranging mods is the single most basic feature of mod management, and I'm actually really shocked that Vortex not having that option is even on the table, much less being doubled down on.

In response to post #57246031. #57249411 is also a reply to the same post. The new system is a fine complementary system to the old way, but I don't think it's wise to fully replace manual mod reordering with it. It's great for long-term mods that you're going to have around in your load order after many shuffles, but it's not so good for when you just want to quickly stick a mod in a different spot in your load order. And that's a crucial part of my own testing process. It's true that I haven't tried it myself but I've been told by other users in exact detail (including screenshots) how it works, and it's far less convenient to me to have to set up a LOOT rule to move something somewhere than to just click and drag it, or use the arrows. I'm not dogging on the new way at all, I just strongly feel that both options should be available. The LOOT rules method doesn't actually stop me from changing my load order manually, it just adds an extra step by forcing me to load the game I'm playing in order to do it since it's a native part of the launcher for Bethesda titles and XCOM among others. One isn't really a replacement for the other, because they have two different utilities. And as stated, regardless of whether or not it's supported by Vortex, I'm still going to tweak my load order manually from time to time. It would be better if I could do it all from the same place.

In response to post #57227931. #57228261, #57231896, #57231991, #57232121, #57237146, #57239481, #57239706, #57240016 are all replies on the same post. I don't see how. Providing the option to rearrange mods doesn't mean that people are forced to use the feature. The automated approach being the default is a good idea, but the option to go in and fine tune without having to set LOOT priorities would be ideal. Even the games themselves (Bethesda titles, XCOM) let you change your load order manually. I can already change the LOOT sorting rules if that's what I need to do, but without being able to manually re-order my .esps, it just adds an extra step of needing to start the game in order to do it when I need to do that. It could be right there in the mod manager like all the other mod managers! I adjust my load order very frequently during development/testing of my own mods, and when testing others, so this is kind of a deal breaker for me.

I understand that Vortex doesn't have any method to manually rearrange your load order, and I'm baffled. It's the single most basic feature of any mod manager. I can't imagine ever using this until that's implemented. It's a shame too, because a lot of the other features sound really great!