eldiabs

There is a difference between 4 squared and 4 times as large. I assumed the right as well.

In response to post #63246396. Absolutely not true. He's probably just tired of entitled kiddies who can't read descriptions or fail to report bugs properly.

The monthly cc updates killed fallout 4 for me. Haven't played it in months. Got sick of having to roll back an exe every time they pulled that bs. And with some mods updating quickly, while other took a while, I just lost interest. No intention of buying 76. They're just going to saturate it with more crappy microtransactions. Not to mention my lack of interest in a multiplayer fallout experience. I want no part in it. If they do the same to future fallout/elder scrolls games, I won't buy those either. Plenty of awesome games out there. And only so much cash. I want to support devs that aren't dbags.

Not even a little bit interested. Guess bethesda took the 'you suck at storytelling' comments and just threw the entire process out the window on this one. I'm sure there will be the occasional terminal or note or environmental storytelling. But the overarching story line seems really, really stupid. I even spent the time to watch the documentary on it, and it made me dislike the game even more. Seems like the game is built on a very unstable platform. Think the current games are buggy? What happens when you add network code on top of that? It's going to be hilarious. I'd even bet the flying car bug is still in the game. I'm not even going to start on the general 'hospitality' of most online survival games like this. Everyone already knows. But hey, the creation club 'modders' will probably make some decent money building microtransaction cosmetics for bethesda. Good for them. One step closer to completely monetizing modding.

It's Bethesda? Should answer everything. Wait for future RPGs from them. I'm sure this is only the beginning.

Nah. But it may hinder it to some degree depending on who is in control of the CC. At least with future mod work. It doesn't take a large percentage of morons with too much money to make this a profitable micro transaction venture for bethesda. Even if it's a complete joke for most of us who will never give them a penny for such cheesy content. Honestly it looks like the creation club was rushed out the door before all of the content they wanted to present with it was ready. I have theories on why that is, but don't feel like getting told I'm being over reactive. So I guess we'll see! Going directly after the modding community now would be silly, but that doesn't mean they can't influence future games. Think of the CC as a beta test for the future. Especially if this whole Bethesda/Game of Thrones rpg thing is real.

Couple of things. As stated in previous threads about the CC, a majority of the content in the CC will most likely be developed in house. The horse power armor was one of the main things I pointed out previously. It's literally in the very first video before they opened up the bethesda mod page, before the CC was ever mentioned. Meaning it was developed a long time ago by one of the devs, never used, then dropped into the CC for a ridiculous price, along with all the other crap. Chances are much of it was created in house, and abandoned at some point during their development cycle. They chose not to give it away for free. So this seems to have been a half assed idea by someone right around the point the bethesda mod pages started going up. Now that they've basically added all of the current CC content to everyone's hard drives, but without esps to activate them (which is begging for piracy as modding is really easy especially when all but the esp is provided), this seems to be pointing to plans with future games. Why not just have all of that content pre-packed with the main game files, then try and get suckers to pay up through microtransactions. Seems like they are testing the waters right now. Basically using the current community as beta testers for future implementation in upcoming games they have in development. What happened to all of the holy defenders of the creation club? I'm sure they have answers for everyone.

Ahhhh hahahahahahaha. Hahhahahaah. hah.... ahhhhh....

Sure thing. Good luck to the modders (how many remains to be seen) who move over to the creation club system. Hope it works out for them, and that they somehow turn their hobby into a profession. That's definitely every person's dream in one way or another. Nothing will change my mind that this is a bad idea for the community as a whole. It will work out well for Bethesda regardless as there are plenty of people out there with fairly ridiculous disposable incomes. More power to them. Microtransactions for the win. Seems to be the future of gaming. I'll have no part in it. Patreon works quite well for many. It's BS Bethesda doesn't allow it, and now they will be monetizing the community themselves through microtransactions. Trying to argue that patreon wouldn't work is simply not acknowledging that is does work for those that have the drive to make it successful for themselves. If patreon was a possibility for modders, the more talented ones would almost definitely be able to make a living at it. Those that join the CC are simply giving in and agreeing to take whatever rates Bethesda offers them. Can't say that's the best way to follow a dream, but whatever! Good luck!

What singleplayer only games have become "micro-transaction driven"? Microtransactions work in multiplayer games, but I have yet to hear of a single-player game I doubt many of the people who will get accepted will have that mindset. It's more about being able to spend the time focusing on modding. How many mods have died in development because the person (or people) working on them just didn't have the time to work on them? I've only made a few fairly small mods, and they were almost all delayed significantly (i.e. months) because I didn't have the time to work on them. There are two others I have not yet completed for the same reason. And while I seriously doubt I would get accepted if I were to apply, my main consideration when I thought about doing so was the potential access to assets I couldn't get otherwise. I'm not planning on trying, both because I doubt I'd qualify and because I won't have the time I'd need to spend in order to meet the development milestones in a reasonable amount of time, but I have thought about it. You talk about how easy it is to send a DMCA, acting like it is no big deal, but filing a false DMCA is perjury. Yes, Bethesda has tons of money so no individual will fight it, but if they do it on a significant scale I'd be surprised if there was no class-action suit or something along those lines. And what do you mean by "conflict"? If you mean "mod conflict", they'll just blame the mod author of the conflicting (free) mod. If you mean fills the same role (e.g. adding a new piece of armor), they'd have to completely shut down the free modding scene. If you mean adding something that looks the same (e.g. someone makes and releases a piece of armor that deliberately looks the same as some Creation Club armor), it would be silly of them not to, as the person was doing so maliciously (and even then, if the MA shows proof that they made that asset themselves and aren't uploading a copy of the mesh taken from the Creation Club, I doubt they'll bother). They probably would just remove it from their site (or not allow it in the first place), so no console players could use that mod. Why would they be talking about the release time for the creation kit for a game that hasn't even entered development yet? That makes no sense whatsoever. Also, thanks to the 3rd party tools that have been developed over the years for Gamebryo/Creation Engine games, there were still over 11K mods released in the 7-ish months between the game's release and the CK's release. There have been about 14k released in the 13 -ish months since. With the exception of quest and location mods, almost all other types of mods can be made relatively easily without the CK. I would be very surprised if "Most of the Creation Club content is created internally, some with external partners who have worked on our games, and some by external Creators" remains true in the future (unless it flops and they don't continue it past the end of this summer). They are likely just trying to ensure that one of the problems with the attempt at Skyrim paid modding (lack of choice at launch, with most of it overpriced and/or stolen) is not repeated. I would be honestly surprised if the amount made through the Creation Club is even close to the amount made from DLC. DLC have a huge profit margin compared to the base game, largely because the vast majority of the assets (whether that be textures/meshes/music, game mechanics or even the game engine) already exist. If you look at the plugins for the DLC-added locations, you'll see that the vast majority of the stuff used are from Fallout4.esm. And no, they couldn't just "make another full sized DLC with that Dev time", or "drop it all for 5 bucks". You talk about shareholders, good luck convincing them to focus the time on even more DLC for an "old" game, and they'd consider a $5 stuff pack DLC just the same. Full sized DLC require cohesion between a much larger team than something like this would. That adds significant time/people to the project. Plus, if they released it as DLC, they would either: 1) have to deal with the backlash over it not being included in the Season Pass (especially since they jacked the price up to $50), or 2)include it, which means they would only make money from the people who didn't by the Season Pass but would buy this stuff (I don't see that as being a very big overlap). They've already shown they care about public opinion, as evidenced by them pulling the paid mods attempt for Skyrim almost immediately, rather than trying to fix their bad implementation of it. That's actually a good counter to many of your points. Mass DMCAs of legitimate mods: will generate tons of bad publicity. Not releasing/significantly (1+ years) delaying the release of the CK while maintaining the Creation Club for new games: tons of bad publicity. Not releasing DLC for future games while maintaining the Creation Club for them: tons of bad press, and almost certainly significantly lower profit margins. If you still don't believe that bad publicity will affect game publishers: -Topware disabled the console while trying to sell microtransaction cheats. Result: tons of bad press, and Topware re-enables the console -TakeTwo DMCAs OpenIV. Result: tons of bad press, they rescind the DMCA against OpenIV (the situation hasn't fully ended, but them pretending to back off only to shut Open IV down again would just reduce trust even more than leaving it taken down, and would keep news about it relevant longer) You (and a lot of others) seem to believe that the situation here is identical to other games that don't have an active modding scene. The laws of supply and demand apply here just as they do elsewhere. If you have a large supply (i.e. free mods), you have to stand out to sell well. If you charge $1-$5 for individual weapons/vehicles/etc... for a game that either has no mods, or is very difficult to use mods with, people will buy them. If they charge $1-$5 for individual armors/weapons/etc..., and people can download tons of free armor/weapon mods that are just as good in quality, those types of items won't sell well. The ones that are actually worth the cost will do well, and that is something that Bethesda will take notice of. And since they already will have spent money on the overpriced mods, they would almost certainly (eventually) reduce the price so they can at least make some money off of them. For it to really "kill" the modding community, they would have to not just stop supporting mods completely, but actively attack free mods. Considering how one of the big selling points for Fallout 4 was modding, and modding was the main reason for console users to buy Skyrim SE, I'm pretty sure that's not happening. That would almost certainly lose them more from lost sales than they would make from the Creation Club-style monetization. Some general comments on the Creation Club: I personally doubt that what we saw of the "store" is going to be fully representative of what is available (prices or otherwise). The fact that one of the things listed is actually called "Horse Armor" (which appears to be the Giddyup Buttercup pieces stuck to some power armor), I'm assuming it is part mock-up, part joke. It was a really stupid joke, considering the paid mods fiasco, but a joke nonetheless. And I also think one of the reasons they are setting up the system the way they are (i.e. paying for development) is to let them control the prices, which lets them avoid the issue of idiots with an inflated sense of their content's worth. Some things that I think Bethesda could do to ensure this idea is a success: provide the proper support to modders they accept into the program. Not just for polishing/conflict checking/localization, but give them access to things like the raw texture files, which would allow a mod author to make their content match existing content more easily. The raw textures would let you (as an example) make a pristine version of the Red Rocket, or weather it differently than the vanilla ones. If someone wanted to make a mod that let you repair all the roads in the Commonwealth, they could do so much more easily with access to the same assets as an internal dev can use. Within the limits of their existing license agreements of course, though the way they have it structured makes it possible they would be legally considered independent contractors which should give them a lot more leeway. They could potentially be able to give access to the actual tools they use (rather than the crippled Creation Kit), assuming the contracts allow whatever licensed software their version contains that they had to remove. They could add the necessary hooks/features a mod requires for some feature a mod author comes up with, such as making conditionals work for "Scrap" recipes while still allowing you to scrap an item with a normal recipe regardless of conditionals. shadowslasher410 has been trying for several months now to make it so the mod Scrap Everything lets you control what is scrappable in-game (as has been asked for extensively), and if conditionals actually worked for scrapping that update would have been released hack in early April. Instead she is making a 4th attempt at it, as the first three didn't work due to various issues things the game engine can't do. And some other planned features were scrapped outright, since they are currently impossible. In other words, the best chance Bethesda has of making the Creation Club not only successful but liked, is to truly work together with the modders they accept into the program, rather than just doing the minimum they have to. That will give us mods that were just not possible before the program, which will drive sales of those mods. Thoughtful response. But I still don't agree. We obviously disagree on a majority of these things. I'll address a few of them. Not to change your mind of course. ;] I don't think I wrote anything about the modding scene being killed off by this? Maybe I did...but I don't think so. If anything it's has the potential to cause a rift in the community. Even without the creation kit modders still created content for these games. Delaying the kit is entirely feasible, and completely within bethesda's right. As is any modders working for bethesda. More power to them. I'll personally not support any of them. I've donated to plenty of modders. But I'll never donate a penny more to any that join the club. Maybe I'm one of the few who did donate. It's unfortunate most don't. They'll make more working for bethesda anyway (even if it's a fraction of what the profits are it's still money right?). Good luck to all of them! DCMA claims. I'm not speaking about any currently existing material. If that was the case there would have been takedowns issued already, and there aren't. That's a conflict I don't think even Zenimax wants to tackle. But what happens when some smartass makes a cooler mudcrab armor, maybe they call it Mr. Jenkins Body Armor? It's entirely their creation, custom models and textures. And it turns out better, and it's free? Maybe it shoots lightning out of its butt or something.You think they'll let that slide when it takes literally no effort to send a threatening email to the modder? This is a silly example (as silly as paying for mudcrab armor perhaps?), but one that I am using to prove that it is entirely feasible. Look how many sarcastic modders are out there. Someone is bound to do something similar just to prove a point. If they let even a single one slide, it opens up the option for any 'creation' they sell to be custom built by a modder for free. I can't stress this enough. This is a company that has to sue devs if they use words in their game titles that match their own. They have a precedent already for not being lenient. And last but not least, this statement, right here from the bethesda page. So...yeah, MOST of the content is created internally. Most of the Creation Club content is created internally, some with external partners who have worked on our games, and some by external Creators.

Microtransactions imply that you will be buying something frequently, for whatever cost. That is not the case here. If you see a mod you like in the creation club, you buy it once, and it is yours forever and ever, amen. It's not like you are buying a consumable resource, or some such, that you have to refresh your supply of frequently. Not at all. Creation Club is additional Official content. They aren't going to be churning out something new, that everyone just must have, every ten minutes. You are buying trouble you don't have, and likely never will. mi·cro·trans·ac·tionˌmīkrōtranˈzakSH(ə)n/noun a very small financial transaction conducted online.

No matter what way anyone tries to spin it, this is the official introduction of microtransactions into bethesda games. We all know from every other microtransaction driven game where that eventually leads. These 'creators' (internal or external) are helping issue in that change to the fallout and elder scrolls games. I'll not support any of them. Best of luck making money to them, whatever floats your boat. I still think it's jacked up no matter how you look at it or try to make it sound like a very select few modders are finally getting their fair pay day for their efforts. That's never what any of it was about (at least to most of us). Now it is. Bethesda finally found a way to bank on the efforts of the community (not the user community, the modding community). Well...more than before, even though the only reason their games last as long is because of the modding community. What's so funny about all of this is the external 'creators' are such a small, most likely insignificant part of it in the big scheme of things. They'll be nothing more than small time contractors for a microtransaction machine that's internal driven for the majority of the content. I'm sure a few of them will most likely walk away with a bit of cash for their efforts. Yay for them I guess. And despite what I've been told numerous times I am still not convinced they won't pursue dmca claims (which take about 30 seconds to fill out and send) if content by modders directly conflicts with something in their microtransaction club. Maybe not on these games due to how entrenched modding is, but what about future games and content? How long will it take for them to release the creation tools for future games to the community now? Time will tell there. Hope I'm dead wrong. They haven't exactly covered any of this from what I've read on their website. Think the full size dlc are rough now? Wait until the shareholders get a look at the time to profit margins of microtransactions vs full size dlc. How much content will be cut from future games to dribble out through their club? They even say a majority of the content is coming from their internal devs in the about section. Hahaha. Come on. Couldn't they have just done another full sized dlc with that dev time? Or drop it all for 5 bucks? Wonder why they didn't.

And that is all I need to hear to know just how little you understand the Creation Engine or the Creation kit but, Sure lets get back to topic. Where is the proof that the Creation Club will ruin the community or even have any effect on it other then a few mods falling behind a Pay Wall? I suspect it will have little impact on the PC players at all but, for console players it's could be a game changer. (But I know from other topics how you feel about anyone who chooses to play on a console so you don't even need to bother telling me you don't care about them!) Where is your proof that the CC won't destroy the community? Guess we'll see. We're all just making assumptions here. The response has been pretty negative so far. Those that support this are obviously in the minority. I think this is a crap move by Bethesda. And with their track record of treating smaller developers, I have little faith they won't take this as an opportunity to screw over the modding community as a whole. So a handful of modders get a little money? Whoopdeefreakingdoo. There are literally thousands of modders who won't. And some of those may end up receiving C&D letters because their mods may look or act similar to what will be on the CC. If money is involved, you can bet they'll pursue some sort of action. Even if it's just threatening letters. Hell, I've done that with video work I've done with people who stole my material. It's very simple. Bethesda will have no issue doing it. So...no. In my opinion, it's just not worth it. It's going to cause a rift in the community. Worse than the last time they tried this. You want to make money modding games? Pick another game. There are plenty out there.

None of it has ever been in direct conflict with something Bethesda is trying to make money with. If I'm wrong, please show me some examples. It's too early to tell. Guess we'll see what happens. I just think microtransactions are a horrible idea. Not only because we already have one of the largest modding communities out there, a community that has remained strong due to the freedom of sharing sources, material, and ideas, but because this micro dlc crap bethesda is trying to pull is a direct response by them trying to figure out a way to make money from the modders out there. It's not about giving some random guy or girl a chance to make a living doing something they enjoy. It's about them seeing just how much they can squeeze out of their outdated games. And testing to see how feasible it is for future games. If they were really trying to help modders out, they'd be giving them even profit sharing, which isn't going to happen.

Also, those bs mods you're suggesting won't get past the "email deleted" part.Uh... Except that kind of stuff is exactly what they showed at E3, minus the followers and the fishing minigame... Did you miss that?It was high quality works, not "my first model and texture made from cardboard and crayons :)". Very typical micro dlc. EA looks like saints now. Regarding comments about Bethesda sending C&Ds to modders making similar works, I highly doubt that will ever happen, they'd have to shut down free modding entirely No they wouldn't have to shut down free modding entirely. That makes no sense. Think of it this way. When money is involved, or there is a possible threat of money being involved, Bethesda has a long track record of suing and/or sending threats via lawyers to the 'offending' parties. So...such and such internal or external 'creator' makes an uber buttrendering axe of nugget smashing. They sell it for 300 credits or whatever. Some other aspiring modder had a better uber nuttrendering axe of bugget smashing already available via bethnet or nexus. 'Well shucks, that looks awfully like the buttrendering axe of nugget smashing our company just released' thinks Mr. Lawyer, twiddling his greedy, grimy hands. 'We can't have that now can we. It cuts into our profits'. BAM - aspiring modder who made that really cool uber nuttrendering axe of bugget smashing is told to remove his mod, or the DCMA goes to the company(ies) hosting the mod. POOF - the Nuttrender is gone. I'm only saying this because Bethesda/Zenimax pull crap like this more than any other game company out there. They are sue happy. Screwing with modders is not below them if it affects their bottom line. It hasn't so far, but with this new CC thing, it very well could. Especially since many of the really good modders have been quite vocal about keeping their mods free. Hope I'm wrong. Would be great if it's not the case. Then we can all hold hands, sing Dragonborn theme songs, and ride magic rainbow farting unicorns over the wasteland.