underbreast shadowing (discussion, not a "problem" per say)

[anjenthedog]

So.... one thing I've noticed is that many body textures favor very large breasts, specifically in what I'll call "underbreast shadow", a sweep of a slightly darker tone that outlines the shape of the lower half of the breast.

 

If I build a preset that spans light (effectively underfed or high metabolism) at 0 weight and a 100 weight fully fed version, from most women I've known, the breast size dramatically changes with weight. Mesh changes are easy from bodyslide to define the bounds. Problem is, the texture *seems to be locked to a single "ideal" underbreast pov, so when 0 weight is encountered and the breast are basically perky mounds (due to player starving, for instance, or for a simply slender, less well endowed woman), they still have a b or c-sized smear of darker arc well below the breasts that defines a shadow line that no longer exists.

 

 

 

 

Note: the topography of the breasts in the upper image don't - shouldn't - have any discernible "cup" to them, at least on the lower half (maybe a little to the sides)

 

 

 

I'm wondering how that could be counteracted (or even if it can) or what it'd take to include it as a feature, similar to a mod like Shieldmaidens Muscle Slider SE, which increases muscularity with weight, or one of those progressive tanning mods, where for this particular situation, the shadowline would be applied via a stack of "increasingly radius" overlay dds files to account for changes to breast topography with weight change. It doesn't resolve the problem of existing texture sets with the precolored arcs, but maybe could replace that usage in the far flung fuuuuuture! if it were implemented.

 

whaddathink?

 

Maybe I'm missing some obvious solution. I realize I *could probably edit the ~ten shieldmaidens dds files to add appropriate shadowing (edit: actually, that mod doesn't work on the necessary layers to produce the shadowing, so that's a deadend), find some texture that doesn't use any shadowline to replace my current texture ("Pure" at a guess), but I don't have the chops on that kind of graphics work in the first place (an arc with a spray paint tool for me looks like your average preschooler's children's crayon work).

[IsharaMeradin]

There is actually a solution to this. Most body mods provide a single texture file that covers the entire weight range. This works and is how Bethesda shipped the game. However, Bethesda included a way to affect the texture shown based on weight. On the Armor Addon record for the Torso there is a texture swap file list for each gender. There is a single entry in this list that corresponds with the assigned texture. However, I tested with this list several years back with LE. I assigned additional textures (all with distinctly different tattoos) to this list. I went up to 11 separate textures. When examined in game I ended up with a different texture assignment at each weight setting (0,10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 and 100).

 

Taking this bit of knowledge, one could possibly develop a texture mod that caters to both ends of the spectrum.

[anjenthedog]

Seems reasonable. I hate to sound dumb, but where exactly do I find the Armor Addon record you noted?

[IsharaMeradin]

Editor ID for the naked torso armor addon is: NakedTorso

It can be located in the Armor Addon section of Skyrim.esm in xEdit or the Armor Addon section in the Object Window of the Creation Kit after loading Skyrim.esm

 

You're specifically looking for the formlists: SkinMaleHumanBody and SkinFemaleHumanBody

These form list use texture sets, so you'll have to make some custom ones that point to custom textures.

 

You'll need to do some testing. I think if there are only two texture sets in the list, one will be used on the low end and the other on the high end.

[anjenthedog]

Thanks. I'm there now. (Skyrim.esm in SSEEdit)

 

I see a closest-match entry for Armor Addon >> NakedTorso >> NAM3 - Female Skin Texture Swap List >> SkinFemaleHumanBody [FLST:0007BBB2]

 

I presume I replace the value with a comma-delimited list of similar entries? (not exactly sure what the reference pulls from, it appears to come directly from Skyrim.esm, which is puzzling, since my skin texture should be coming from the TMBE - Body - mod). Admittedly, I'm not sure how to read the value properly, so maybe it translates to something like "femalebody_1.dds" for all I know...

 

PS> it also doesn't appear to be an editable field (In SSEEdit).

 

Ah...Creation kit shows things a bit clearer, and you *can choose a swap list from a dropdown. But how do you create the swap list in the first place?

[IsharaMeradin]

No. Ctrl+Left click on the entry. It will take you to the SkinFemaleHumanBody Form List (FLST record). There you can add additional texture sets that you have created for this purpose. It will be easier in the Creation Kit as you can drag and drop records into the form list window.

[anjenthedog]

well, by using ctrl-left mouse (thanks, wasn't aware of ctrl-left), I can tunnel down farther into SSEEdit's entries (not so in CK it dead-ends, and ctrl-left click doesn't go any deeper), but I'm not sure what to do here either.

 

this is one step deeper

 

 

 

where it appears that if I could add some more entries to the form list (and define them), I could get somewhere...

 

and this one more for good measure (since it's as deep as I could go)

 

 

 

 

it's also quite possible this is just too advanced for me, so if you recognize the symptoms of "newbi-itus". lemme know and I'll leave off.

[IsharaMeradin]

Ctrl+Left click was for xEdit not the Creation Kit.

 

The first screenshot where you are on the FLST record SkinFemaleHumanBody, you can go down to the FormIDs section and right click in the section header entry (directly across from FormIDs) and choose to add a new entry. A new empty line will appear under the one that is there. You can then add a new texture set record. A texture set record will most likely need to be created in the Creation Kit first. This is where drag and drop in the CK comes in handy.

 

In the CK, you can use the filter at the top of the object window to jump to a specific FormID #. To find the Form List record in the CK, use the filter at the top of the object window (I don't remember if it filters by FormID or EditorID, whichever it might be use the appropriate info found in xEdit). Or go to the Form List section and scroll till you find the one with SkinFemaleHumanBody as the Editor ID. Open up the record, move it to the side and navigate the object window to the Texture Set section, create your texture sets (use SkinBodyFemale_1 - second screen shot - as a template). You will of course need to have the textures in place in either a different folder or in the same folder with different names. Once the textures sets desired are created, drag them into the form list record opened earlier. There should be buttons or right click menu options to move the list entries up or down if necessary.

 

Some of this may be explained in backwards order, hopefully it still helps.