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Troubleshooting Conflict in a Large Mod List

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#1
CrispyWalrus

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I'd been playing Skyrim on a Radeon 3000 using reduced texture and shadow mods but I got a new video card in the past month so I decided it was finally time for better visuals and to give STEP a try. STEP does not recommend NMM so it was WB or MO. Given the large size of my mod list (my favorite originals plus STEP ones) and little to no information to be found when trying to search for the best mod INSTALL order (outside of the STEP mod list itself), I liked the fact that with MO I could address that even after an install-- for any not aware, MO virtualizes the data directory on launch so all your mods install instead into their own directories allowing you to reorder your mod INSTALL order as well as load order at any time.

So after reinstalling Skyrim along with MO, WB (you still use it from within MO for bashed leveled lists), BOSS, and TES5Edit, and getting all my mods bashed, ordered, and cleaned; I started a new game via Live Another Life as a Khajiit Caravan Guard so my first ten levels were spent in the Reach and things were going pretty well (typical Skyrim occasional crashes but nothing really reproducible) at least until I got to Riverwood. There I couldn't get through town without locking up. I didn't CTD per se; I just froze and Task Manager would show Skyrim as not responding. This happened enough times that I decided I should try to find the specific cause of my issue as at Level 10 it would only get worse and Riverwood was proving an unplayable area.

As I said I use MO v0.12.9 for handling all my "normal" mods and outside of MO I also run HiAlgoBoost, RCRN (which also puts two ESPs and a BSA in data), and SKSE. My original mod list after STEP and my own favored adds:

Spoiler

For my first bit of troubleshooting I'd started a brand-new game as a LAL Camper for easy access to Riverwood testing and even with a fresh character I would still crash somewhere between the turn-off for Embershard mine and getting to Riverwood proper though sometimes I could get into and clear Embershard only to crash on the other side. Also besides the freezing I noticed a very weird thing in my Papyrus logs-- my settings were somehow getting changed on me. I do use a LOT of script heavy mods so I keep my Papyrus settings at 3x vanilla levels save paging sizes:
Spoiler

but the very start of my Papyrus logs show:
Spoiler

which is not what my ini specifies. I am not sure how this is changed but can only guess that it must be one of my mods doing it somehow.

So moving on with troubleshooting and praising MO for enabling the relative ease of this through its virtualization I "uninstalled" all my mods save those outside MO and then enabled only the Unofficial Patches and Live Another Life, and started another game. This time I ran all the way to Whiterun and back with no crash and my Papyrus logs initialized like I would expect:
Spoiler

I wasn't sure if my textures were overrunning my 1GB VRAM (though I didn't think so since I figured that WOULD result in CTD) so I went through every mod and added an additional category for non-ESP/ESM nods so that I could re-enable all mods that didn't have any ESP/ESM, which are mostly sounds, meshes and HD textures (though I tend to use "lowres" versions 2048K or smaller if available-- still a HUGE bump up for me from the 256k reduced vanilla textures (thank you alt3rn1ty!) I'd been running on before the new vid card). Again I ran all the way to Whiterun and back to my camp without any issue and Papyrus still initializing at my set values:
Spoiler

So now I have left to troubleshoot ALL :confused: of my remaining mods with the ESP files and scripts:
Spoiler

I am not really sure what is the best way to proceed. Some I ran previously so I know they work well together like SkyRe, Convenient Horses, AFT, Frostfall, and RN&D. Some I added with STEP so theoretically they should all play nice together as I followed STEP's guide (though arguably my additions renders STEPs checks moot). Some are a bit of both (used before and STEP recommended) like Immersive Armors, iHUD, and SkyUI. I really don't relish the idea of checking all those left "uninstalled" one or two at a time as there are still a bunch and restarting the game and a new char gets tedious.

My gut guess is perhaps Skyrim Flora Overhaul or SkyTEST given how much each touches, but that is a shot in the dark assuming my PC is stressed by them or due to size the have a better odds of conflicting. I really hope not too as these both add to immersion so so much.  It could also just be some niggling small line on a small mod conflicting with another small mod I guess. I really don't know. I do know that I have seen some advanced users and modders use TES5Edit to not only clean ITMs and UDRs but get funky with troubleshooting (and resolving) mod conflicts and even making merged patches.

So if anyone has any insight into known conflicts between those mods I have remaining or can point me to a *SIMPLE* TES5Edit Guide to Mod Conflict resolution (I did watch Sharlikran's February Youtube vid, but it is too rambling and I think assumes one knows more than I do about TES5Edit), I would be very grateful!


Edited by CrispyWalrus, 25 May 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#2
ripple

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Can you post your BOSS log (with the messages)? Include the list of plugins not recognized by BOSS if one is generated. Enclose them in spoiler tags so they don't clutter the screen. While you are at it, post your ini settings into a spoiler tag as well.



#3
CrispyWalrus

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Sure can! :smile:
 
BOSS Log:

Spoiler

 

Skyrim.ini:

Spoiler

 

SkyrimPrefs.ini:

Spoiler

 

Thanks for looking at this!


Edited by CrispyWalrus, 25 May 2013 - 12:17 PM.


#4
ripple

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Hm....looks well maintained. The only thing that screams "I can cause CTDs!" is this:

 

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp Active

As its author says, SkyTest doesn't work well in a large load order. When I had it in my load order a long time ago (and likely many versions ago), it was responsible for 95% of the worldspace CTDs I experienced (I assume you have not experienced CTDs in interior cells). So I recommend uninstalling it, rebuild your compatibility patches, and see if the game stabilizes. I read there was a 'lite version' of SkyTest, so you can try that instead.



#5
Nacroe

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I have just loaded up a few mods and now I CTD very often, I have no idea why for all I know it could be the load order or conflicts with the mods. I use NMM because for me it is easier than manually doing so. Here is my load order:

Skyrim.esm
Dawnguard.esm
Dragonborn.esm
HearthFires.esm
Update.esm
ApachiiHair.esm
betterfactionscomplete.esp
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
skyrim overhaul guilds.esp
ApachiiHairStylesELVES.esp
ApachiiHairStyles.esp
FallOut3Hairs.esp
CerwidenCompanion.esp
EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
EMViljaInSolstheimAddOn.esp
NewmillerCeremonialRobesCBBE.esp
FullBootForKKSA.esp
ElderOutfit.esp
Viconia.esp

 

I have Fnis and Hialgo boost active as well. If anyone can give me any suggestions on how to fix this I would really appreciate it. Also if I posted this in the wrong forum than I apologize. If you need to know any of my pc's specs just let me know.
 


Edited by Nacroe, 25 May 2013 - 01:28 PM.


#6
CrispyWalrus

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Thanks Ripple :)  I was sort of dreading hearing that.  I read the same thing, but the mod is so cool-- intelligently acting animals, varied ones and offspring even, smartly placed spawns.  Since the author mentioned it being script-free too, I figured perhaps it could work for me.  v1.03 is the "lite" version I guess.  No new spawns, variety or offspring-- just the AI routines.

 

Hey Nacroe :)  You might want to start your own thread-- get more visibility that way.  Quick glance at your load order and it seems the vanilla are even out of order.  It should be Skyrim.esm, then Update.esm, then Dawnguard.esm, then HearthFires.esm, then Dragonborn.esm.  I'm not really sure about your rest, but you should grab BOSS and let it do its thing.



#7
CrispyWalrus

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I have been watching Sharlikran's videos on merge patching and conflict resolution-- watched them a real real lot recently. :P

So I have been trying to make my own merge patch to hopefully increase stability in modded Skyrim without needing to lose some cool mods.

However, when I run TES5Edit.exe and make my merge patch my merge plugin generated is pretty small and many many things are still not present in it despite conflicting plugins.

I see no errors loading all my plugins into TES5Edit.exe and also see messages that all my masters and plugins were loaded to my merge patch as masters when I created it despite only seeing twenty-five actually there as masters in its header afterwards. (See Attached File  TES5EditMSG.zip   40.7KB   7 downloads)

So, for example, two relatively small mods I use-- Dagger Sounds 4 Daggers and Unique Uniques each modify a few weapons and both happen to touch on Valdr's Lucky Dagger, for this instance:

DaggerSounds4Daggers-dawnguard.esp changes TNAM - Attack Fail Sound to "WPNSwingDaggerSmallSD [SNDR:13000D62]" and Unique Uniques.esp changes MODL - Model Filename to "Insanity\Weapons\Unique\Lucky\LuckyDagger.nif" and WNAM - 1st Person Model Object to "aaISUniqueWeapLucky1stPerson [STAT:71003317]".

It seems like this is the sort of thing I should get automatically put into my merge patch but I actually have very few weapons in my merge patch. I suppose I could just start at at Skyrim.esm and work down looking at conflicts by hand and copying as override, but that is hugely daunting with over a couple hundred plugins and things seemed to work more automatically in Sharlikran's videos so I wonder what I am doing wrong...

Edited by CrispyWalrus, 27 May 2013 - 07:48 AM.






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