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Making my first home and need modder advice


miketheratguy

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Hey guys, after years of downloading I finally took the step of trying to make my own abode and a couple of very specific elements of NPC behavior are frustrating me to no end. First the backstory and then my questions (short version: Sandboxing NPCs won't move between floors and will sometimes decide to stand around rather than interact with their environment).

 

I like my homes huge. One of my biggest joys since Morrowind has been to run around and recruit NPCs to populate my home, using guards in the front and ladies in the pool room or what have you. In Oblivion and now SKyrim this has been better than ever because they actually move around and interact with their surroundings, and I love that. I'm big on the immersion aspect of all this.

 

So it's been frustrating that whenever a nice big house mod comes along it always has the same inevitable bug: For reasons I've never understood, relaxed NPCs (using any of the mods like Extensible Follower Framework, My Home is Your Home, AFT, etc.) will not use stairs. They're content to stay on a single floor, even when it's night time, they're programmed to look for beds, and they're available on an upper floor.

 

So I finally got frustrated enough to get into the CK, learn Navmeshing, and try to make my own home. After spending ten laborious hours of putting things into place just to TEST the functionality of a large home, I encountered another issue I'd completely forgotten about: NPCs forgetting that they're supposed to interact with their environment and just standing still for (in-game) hours at a time, doing absolutely nothing.

 

Obviously, both of these things break the immersion. While I HAVE been able to find mods where NPCs will (only occasionally) go up or down stepladders, stairs are completely out of the question. And it seems that nothing I do is stopping them from randomly deciding to plant themselves in one spot for the better part of a day despite chairs, beds, and crafting stations being mere feet away.

 

So I need some help from people who have made homes before. What's causing these issues and how does one fix them? I should note that I've encountered this problem in a multitude of house mods- pretty much every one I've tried to experiment with. I'm currently experimenting with the Bathing Beauties interior because it's one of the only homes I can find where NPCs even bother moving between floors, and where NPCs seem to move around with no issues (even the ones I deposit there with follower mods during actual gameplay). But now that I've extended the place and added more area, boom- the stepladders are apparently off-limits and NPCs often like to stand around doing nothing.

 

I don't get it, and it's frustrating because I finally started trying to mod myself just to get AROUND these exact issues. Help!

Edited by miketheratguy
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Absolutely no one can help? Can anyone at least tell me whether that's because what I'm asking about is too easy, too complicated, already answered somewhere else, or there's no known solution?

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This might help with NPCs interacting with the environment:
(I'm going to post all the links, just so you have everything)

http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Packages

http://www.creationkit.com/Category:Package_Templates#Procedure_Parameter_Types

http://www.creationkit.com/Sandbox_(Procedure)

The first is basic packages, which are how you control an NPC's behavior. The second is templates for packages. And the third is Sandbox procedure, which helps make the NPC seem alive, by giving them times that they need to eat and sleep. There are other procedures, but I though Sandbox was the most relevant to what you're wanting to do.
I hope that's not too general.
Or you could duplicate an actor and change their name and appearance, see if that works.
Also, make sure your navmesh and markers are configured properly. And do a few idle markers scattered about, so they have different places to stand.
I hope this is a little helpful at least!
I'm making a big player house, too, so I know how much of a hassle it can be.


Edited by BriannaElisabeth
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Thanks for the feedback.

 

So is this a common problem? Or at least a problem that most people are familiar with? NPCs that won't go up or down stairs when sandboxing? I'll look into the links you posted but is it normal to have to change the AI of the NPCs themselves just to travel across a navmesh that's at an up or down angle? That seems really odd.

 

Recruited characters seem able to go up and down the ladders in Bathing Beauties, so I don't know why that location would be any different. This is so confusing.

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The way I found to make my NPCs go up stairs in my big house mod (Ironwood Homestead, with a basement and a second floor) was to use a copy of the sandbox package belonging to the bard in the Falkreath Inn, Delacourt. I took his package, duplicated it, renamed it and changed the cell to the one of my house. I think that was all - I don't remember much now :tongue: But it worked, and my NPCs go around, up and down, and are happy.

 

Oh, and also, idle markers and furniture markers - use 'em and abuse 'em! In the main floor of my big house mod there must be around 25... Maybe more. Furniture markers WallLean and TableLean (I think those were the names) are good for variety when it comes to furniture. There's one for railings too, like in balconies, but I can't remember the name now. The idle markers I use the most are Sweep, BookReading, Pray (if there are shrines) and Browse. The more the better - my NPCs rarely stand around :smile: Not to do a shameless plug or anything, but you are welcome to download my mod and open it in the Creation Kit if you would like to see what I did. Maybe it could help :)

 

Hopefully that wasn't too confusing :smile:

Edited by Jokerine
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Actually no, that's a good idea and I'd like to take a look at your house.

 

I think you guys are saying that you can make NPCs that come with your house to sandbox across multiple floors. That IS good, but I'm referring to bringing other NPCs into the house to sandbox across multiple floors, not my own. I'm not trying to create a house that comes with NPCs (though I do appreciate the help in that area), I'm just trying to create a house that can be fully traversed by any NPC that sandboxes there.

 

For example, bringing in sandboxing NPCs seems to work in Bathing Beauties for some reason- I can recruit a bunch of followers (Vanilla and player-created) and tell them to live there using EFF or Your Home is My Home. They're willing to go up and down the stepladders to change floors. I didn't know why this place works- I assumed it was because it uses stepladders instead of stairs- so I tried adding more area to the interior of that home, not altering any of the navmesh on or around the stepladders. But now that I've done this, the characters no longer use the stepladders and just remain on the floor where I release them from service.

 

So, not only do I not understand why recruited / added / characters will change floors in Bathing Beauties, I also don't understand why my adding space to the interior seems to stop this from happening.

Edited by miketheratguy
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Oh, I know what you mean. I have not checked mods like My Home is your Home in the CK, but I have a feeling they may give followers the DefaultSandboxCurrentLocation1024 AI package, which indeed somehow forbids the user from going up any kinds of stairs. I remember the Spouses Can Live Anywhere mod author mentioned at one point making the radius of the mod larger to fit big houses - that would mean that the mod may indeed be using a modified version of that one AI package.

 

I think the radius of that package may only be horizontal, so they cannot go up or down. But do not quote me on that since I am really not an expert. But yeah, I figure that it is possible to give NPCs packages like Delacourt's, as I said earlier, to make them go all around, but it may be more difficult to give it to followers and spouses via mods. But, if you mention that it is different with Bathing Beauties... Perhaps that mod gives the people you bring in a more customized package rather than a variant of DefaultSandboxCurrentLocation.

 

So, in the end, I think it depends more on the mod you will be using to bring in your followers, rather than the place you will build - although, as I said before, putting in loads of idle and furniture markers will certainly help.

 

Again, sorry if I am not making much sense :sweat:

Edited by Jokerine
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You are, and thanks. I spoke to the modder of Bathing Beauties and that's sort of what he said- basically that it requires the follower mod package to seek out objects on a different floor specifically, that they won't do it on their own (perhaps because the sandbox radius is indeed horizontal, I don't know). It was helpful, but way beyond my knowledge and experience with the CK so unfortunately I'm basically in the same boat that I was before. It's at least nice to understand a little more about why I couldn't do what I was trying to do though. Thanks all.

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  • 3 years later...

You are, and thanks. I spoke to the modder of Bathing Beauties and that's sort of what he said- basically that it requires the follower mod package to seek out objects on a different floor specifically, that they won't do it on their own (perhaps because the sandbox radius is indeed horizontal, I don't know). It was helpful, but way beyond my knowledge and experience with the CK so unfortunately I'm basically in the same boat that I was before. It's at least nice to understand a little more about why I couldn't do what I was trying to do though. Thanks all.

did you ever figure this out Mike?

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