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Modded female bra not appearing

oblivion female underwear vanilla hgec mesh

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#1
BLUESNAKE

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Hi, I've been attempt trying to get a modded (the vanilla bra) bra to show up over a femaleupperbody.nif, specifically the HGEC c-cup mesh from Seamless - OCOv2, & well, it's not showing & acting as a nude mesh. In Nifskope I copy branch the vanilla bra from the extracted nif from the Oblivion - Meshes.bsa, then I paste the branch to the scene root of the HGEC one, remove it's bra, then I resize & positioned the vanilla bra to fit over the body mesh, Spells>Optimize>Remove Bogus Nodes then Stripify all Trishapes, after that Spells>Batch>Update All Tangent Spaces.

Basically I copied from this: http://modsreloaded....ivion-t148.html
Like, I use this method to copy branch the hunter vest merged over the female hunter bra & it worked, but doing this for the bra isn't. So like, is there something I'm not doing? Other words, I'm still like a novice to this modding.

 

 

Edit: Eh, I think I post this in the wrong place, probably should've post this in Oblivion Construction Set and Modders.


Edited by BLUESNAKE, 02 January 2022 - 12:38 PM.


#2
DrakeTheDragon

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The way you're copying sounds about right to me.

 

If it worked this exact way with other meshes but only with this Vanilla bra doesn't, I'd rather check the Vanilla bra itself instead.

 

I'm currently without access to the NIF files, or I'd quickly check myself. So could you check the material (its name) and the node name (of the NiTriShape/Strips node) of the bra inside the Vanilla NIF?

I'm especially thinking of it being treated as a body part (material being "skin" and node name one of "foot", "hand", "upperbody"/"arms", "lowerbody"/"legs", actual material and texture in game overridden by the race and FaceGen properties selected) and the bra texture not being used or the like.

 

Or if it's not showing at all, it could also be a normal vector or normal map issue. Normal vectors can be inverted, pointing to the inside, so the outside faces are not shown/see-through. And a missing normal map file ("..._n.dds") can make it either pitch black or invisible.

 

Does it look fine in NifSkope at least? So is it a problem with different appearances in- and outside of the game? Or does it already not work at all right after copying?

If everything fails, you could as well show us some pictures, both from NifSkope (especially showing the NIF tree structure) and inside the game. (Using spoilers should have you covered about not showing nude pics.)



#3
BLUESNAKE

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Thanks for replying, it's originally a NiTriShape node & it's name is Upper:Body:1 from the vanilla NIF. I also extracted the n.dds to check if that was the case & it still wasn't showing up in-game. Yep, it looked fine in NifSkope it just wasn't showing in-game. Though, I probably figure out what I done wrong earlier, I probably accidentally pasted the copied vanilla bra branch on the other bra node instead of the Scene Root, of why it was invisible/wasn't there in-game. For before replying to you I did a quick experiment, this time I aware that I pasted the branch on the Scene Root & it showed in-game. After that the mistake I believe that I done this morning & it didn't show. So, yeah that's probably what I believe I done earlier.


Edited by BLUESNAKE, 03 January 2022 - 04:17 AM.


#4
BLUESNAKE

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Okay, ignore the presumption I said above for I actually know now what caused it, it's due to when I applied to a translation in the transform>edit to the vanilla bra node. Right after pasting the branch on to the other NIF, it already has -1.187000 for Y & 112.441002 for Z, in the Transform>Edit translation. I clicked Apply to accept those changes, then the bra node got out of place above the mesh & I has to fiddle the translation to get it back where it was, after doing that & edited it to has a good size & position over the breast, for some reason in-game it's not there.

Just now I redo & instead I clear those numbers & leave the node as it is (on the chest area):
Attached File  nif1.PNG   152.35KB   0 downloads

& check in-game it wasn't there instead it floating a few distance under the player. Not good, but at least it's visible now, so I'm getting somewhere now.
3439961-1641189171.jpg

 

 

 

EDIT: Okay, I got it fit & positioned in-game, but uh, it's kinda loose, baggy,, got it not to clip (except sneaking, the breast just full clip out of it) like in the stand, melee, 1-handed weapon (forgot to see with a 2-handed weapon & swimming),& bow poses though. But trying to prevent clipping, I have to resize, & due to that it leaves a gap space between the back & the back of the bra. Urgh.

Basically I was trying to attempt to make a alt HGEC normal C-cup upper body with the vanilla bra. I just put this on hold for now.


Edited by BLUESNAKE, 03 January 2022 - 10:45 AM.


#5
Striker879

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Your edit makes me think that you have a BBBed body mesh but a non-BBBed bra mesh and are using a BBBed animation replacer like NoMaaM (which includes breathing idles for almost all of the game's idles).

 

A couple of things you could look at, either as options or as something to see how others have done it ...

 

BBB for HGEC Body Replacer Underwear

 

ZKEC Female Body - note that the ZKEC body uses a custom hand mesh and rings will not align properly on the ZKEC hands



#6
DrakeTheDragon

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Man, I seriously have to give this Vanilla NIF a look at one point. The bra has its own bone node and an un-applied translation in the original NIF? That's so not how clothing items are usually done.

Only shape-morphed (helmets, hairs, heads and face parts) are doing it like that (un-applied translations), so their 0-based morph files will work no matter where in the scene they are located.

 

Glad you got it figured out. Yes, every NiTriStrips/Shape node, unless in a separately rigged context like sword and hilt in the same NIF or similar, belongs directly onto the root level, a direct child of "NiNode 0 - Scene Root".

 

And yes, the 1:1 copied and deformed bra will have completely different, non-aligning rigging now compared to the body mesh underneath. So during movements / in animations/poses both will always move apart or clip into each other.

The only way to do this part properly is through the use of a modeling app and re-rigging the model, for example by copying bone weights from the body to the bra or redoing all weight-painting by hand or similar means. This, sadly, cannot be achieved in NifSkope that perfectly.



#7
BLUESNAKE

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Your edit makes me think that you have a BBBed body mesh but a non-BBBed bra mesh and are using a BBBed animation replacer like NoMaaM (which includes breathing idles for almost all of the game's idles).

 

A couple of things you could look at, either as options or as something to see how others have done it ...

 

BBB for HGEC Body Replacer Underwear

 

ZKEC Female Body - note that the ZKEC body uses a custom hand mesh and rings will not align properly on the ZKEC hands

 

I don't think it is for the breast doesn't move, the femaleupperbody.nif I'm using is from Seamless - OCOv2, base from the description it's a "HGEC EVE C-Cup Upperbody + Normal Lowerbody (non-BBB)", & the non-BBBed bra is the vanilla one from the Oblivion - Meshes.bsa like I mentioned in the OP. I am using NoMaaM's idles in-game, but even without those animated idles there was clipping. I'll check the models from the links you provided, though I probably have to re-rig the vanilla bra in a modeling app that Drake mentioned. Thanks!

 

 

Man, I seriously have to give this Vanilla NIF a look at one point. The bra has its own bone node and an un-applied translation in the original NIF? That's so not how clothing items are usually done.

Only shape-morphed (helmets, hairs, heads and face parts) are doing it like that (un-applied translations), so their 0-based morph files will work no matter where in the scene they are located.

 

Glad you got it figured out. Yes, every NiTriStrips/Shape node, unless in a separately rigged context like sword and hilt in the same NIF or similar, belongs directly onto the root level, a direct child of "NiNode 0 - Scene Root".

 

And yes, the 1:1 copied and deformed bra will have completely different, non-aligning rigging now compared to the body mesh underneath. So during movements / in animations/poses both will always move apart or clip into each other.

The only way to do this part properly is through the use of a modeling app and re-rigging the model, for example by copying bone weights from the body to the bra or redoing all weight-painting by hand or similar means. This, sadly, cannot be achieved in NifSkope that perfectly.

 

 

I have a feeling I would need a modeling app to re-rig it or recreate it, I was trying to avoid that & just straight on trying to fit it on the HGEC body mesh in NifSkope, unfortunately that didn't came out well. lol

Yeah, I probably do that if I plan to go back at this. For I still consider myself a novice to modding, I'm still learning. For now I'm going to put on hold.


Edited by BLUESNAKE, 03 January 2022 - 08:27 PM.


#8
BLUESNAKE

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So, I just went back to this and at the end I used Blender (still dumb with it, but with a nif plugin it made things even more easier) and got it to come out well!

 

 

 

Mostly what helped me that I found Myst / ElAlquimista had a HGEC (also BBBed) mesh of it in their Vanilla Gear Redux, part of clothes that was added by the mod, Arena Rags, Arena Robe, and Robe of Valor. Though I was able to fit it over the HGEC c-cup mesh from Seamless - OCOv2 in NifScope, but there's was still some breast clipping in some animations, mostly attacking. So, I finally redip my toes again in Blender and have patience to get a understanding of it and not get overwhelm of it's features. At the end I got to make fit well. Eventually I'll upload it here (with credits) for others. May do some color alts & etc. of it before I do.

Attached File  preview.jpg   106.93KB   0 downloads

 

Thanks again Drake and  Striker879 for the help/tips/pointers from days ago.


Edited by BLUESNAKE, 19 January 2022 - 10:33 AM.






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