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WIP - Disband the Thieves Guild - Putting the Thieves Guild behind bar

disband the thieves guild thieves guild destroy the thieves guild arrest jail jarl laila law-giver brynjolf brawling persuade

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Poll: WIP - Disband the Thieves Guild - Putting the Thieves Guild behind bar (51 member(s) have cast votes)

Should the Thieves Guild ever be released from jail?

  1. Yes, they deserve redemption too (28 votes [54.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.90%

  2. No, let them rot in jail (23 votes [45.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.10%

What should happen with the corrupt guard

  1. Exile him (strip him of his rank as guard and let him leave Riften) (11 votes [22.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.00%

  2. Put him in jail as well (15 votes [30.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.00%

  3. Let him be executed, I mean if they execute a horse thief (Lokir), then they would surely execute a corrupt guard (24 votes [48.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 48.00%

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#1
bruce142

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RC version released of this mod : http://www.nexusmods...im/mods/50378/?

 
Disband the Thieves Guild an alternative way to deal with the Thieves Guild, instead of destroying them (like in my other mod Destroy the Thieves Guild, you will be able to put them in jail. Best thing of all, it's fully compatible with this mod Destroy the Thieves Guild so you can combine the two quests to lure Brynjolf away by using the arrest option of the Disband the Thieves Guild and taking him into an alley and kill him softly or you can simply assassinate him in jail if you want to, but you can also let him simply rot in jail (insert *cough evil *cough, ahem innocent laughter here).

I will be further improving the WIP - Disband the Thieves Guild before releasing it to the public but you can sign up for a beta by sending me a PM.

Future ideas :
- Let the other guards (than the corrupt guard who approached you) be potential followers who will dismiss themselves after the quest is completed. I need to find a
solution for the one follower threshold to implement this.

- Allow more than one thief to be hauled to jail at the same time, I need to find a solution for the one follower threshold to implement this.

- Jarl Laila Law-Giver says she deal with the corrupt guard, but for now nothing happens, what should happen to the corrupt guard? I need some input on this.

Edited by bruce142, 26 January 2014 - 07:27 PM.


#2
101VRanger

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lure Brynjolf to an alley to deal with him silently? or kill him in jail?? perfect! gives much more realism to the game/quest of course ... than killing him in front of all the market folks while they just stand there watching ...

 

or even put him behind bars permanently?? perfect too :yes:

 

and u can continue the Destroy the Thieves Guild quest normally after killing him both in an alley or in jail, right?? perfection here too ... :tongue:

 

about future ideas: 

- other guards: not neccesary for me, we/I have already PLENTY of followers ALL OVER the game. Up to you.

 

- allow more than one thief jailed: awesome!! u refer to the Ragged Flagon? or cistern ones? couple of them possibly?? not Sapphire right? 

 

- corrupt guard: the one from u meet when u first step into Riften?? I always wanted to kill him for being so disrespectful to the Dragonborn ... but ... if that's not possible ... at least you should vanish him from the game after Laila Law-Giver "supposedly" dealt with him ... maybe spawn his corpse somewhere, not within Riften city (with a note explaining why/how/when he was expelled from city)?

the better would be spawning him away from Riften like if Laila expelled him from Riften so we can kill him or let him leave through a dialog.

 

hope this helps and keep it up!!  :yes:


Edited by 101VRanger, 26 September 2013 - 06:58 PM.


#3
bruce142

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other guards: not neccesary for me, we/I have already PLENTY of followers ALL OVER the game. Up to you.

 

The guards would be temporally followers as long the quest Disband the Thieves Guild is running, meaning they will assist you in arresting the Thieves Guild members but when they are all in jail, the guard followers will be automatically dismissed. 

 

 

 

allow more than one thief jailed: awesome!! u refer to the Ragged Flagon or cistern ones?? couple of them possibly?? not Sapphire right?? 

 

No, you need to put every thief in jail to complete the quest, no exception, but with the one than more thief I mean that you can take multiple Thief Guild members at once to jail instead of walking 15 times to the Ragged Flagon/Ragged Flagon - Cistern/Bee and Barb/Riften Market Place/Riften Docks to Riften Jail and back.

 

 

 

corrupt guard: the one from u meet when u first step into Riften?? I always wanted to kill him for being so disrespectful to the Dragonborn ... but ... if that's not possible ... at least you should vanish him from the game after Laila Law-Giver "supposedly" dealt with him ... maybe spawn his corpse somewhere, not within Riften city (with a note explaining why/how/when he was expelled from city)?

the better would be spawning him away from Riften like if Laila expelled him from Riften so we can kill him or let him leave through a dialog.

 

I was thinking about either exiling him (strip him of his rank as guard and let him leave Riften), putting him in jail (I have still room open in the jail box of Niruin and Mercer Frey) or let him be executed (although this seems harsh, this was common in the Medieval times). I shall make this a poll question as well.


Edited by bruce142, 26 September 2013 - 07:07 PM.


#4
BurtFreeman

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my points of view:

what the thane do in skyrim? not so much, so this mod could give a reasons to exist.

 

A: things for the dovakin

1) you can arrest thief when you become Thane, and the captain of the guard will be a proper title.

- the Thane can arrest people with bounty only on the proper thownship (put a bounty on the thieves make easy, so the thane can't make wild arrest)

2) the arrested people could go directly into the jail (like when guard arrest you), or a guard spawn on place and take care about.

3) also the thane can be bountyhunter: dead (kill & buried) or alive (brawl & imprison). A bounty could be collect from the jarl

 

B: things for the bastards thievs

1) redemption (the thane must visit the guy): a second chance given to this felon applied on dialogue after a minimum x day of imprison: the option to give the freedom and change the faction could be like:

- join the civil war of the dova faction

- help to capture more boss (become you special follower - here must be think about)

- choose a proper job (random based on a skill): servant, farmer, armoursmith, dragonslayer (********)...

- exile (remove the npc from the game)

2) pitfighter (in this way they will kill each other and only one survive): fighting and win on the arena tourneament (must be anyplace, even the cage) will give the freedom, but without redemption = same bastards same faction

3) spread a random diseas so they will die in the jail

 

(********) those felon that got freedom from the dovakin could enjoy a new guild called THE DRAGONSLAYERS (with basic setup in one place...), becouse the blade sucks: a dragonborn must to do what the blades say? i don't think so!

 

C: things about the guards

1) the corrupted guards will lost their title and properties (if they have) 

2) could become beggar, or join the thieves guild, so the thane can arrest them, or become assassin and ambush you, so you must kill them.

3) execution seems to much, but a public punishment on sunday afternoon coul give some fun at the people.

4) redemption, but the must go to jail for x days

 

 

edit:

+ the concept of redemption could be apply in some way to the dovakin too:

1- after made some of the Thieves Guild quest, you could have an option for getting redemption, after become a thane.

2- if you become leader of the Thieves Guild, you could have a similar redemption option, to disband the guild or altering the identity: like a dragonborn you have a responsability and after a soul-searching you realize that the Thieves Guild members can pay for their guilty becoming the defendors of skyrim from the dragons attack and joing the DRAGONSLAYERS GUILD  that will reside in the The Ragged Flagon: the members must follow a strict honour code after a vow.

 

 

in this way you could disband the guild as soon as you become a thane or having more option to enjoy the Thieves Guild questline with the self-redemption at the end


Edited by BurtFreeman, 27 September 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#5
rattlehead5000

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I really like the idea behind this mod. 



#6
bruce142

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my points of view:

what the thane do in skyrim? not so much, so this mod could give a reasons to exist.

 

A: things for the dovakin

1) you can arrest thief when you become Thane, and the captain of the guard will be a proper title.

- the Thane can arrest people with bounty only on the proper thownship (put a bounty on the thieves make easy, so the thane can't make wild arrest)

2) the arrested people could go directly into the jail (like when guard arrest you), or a guard spawn on place and take care about.

3) also the thane can be bountyhunter: dead (kill & buried) or alive (brawl & imprison). A bounty could be collect from the jarl

 

B: things for the bastards thievs

1) redemption (the thane must visit the guy): a second chance given to this felon applied on dialogue after a minimum x day of imprison: the option to give the freedom and change the faction could be like:

- join the civil war of the dova faction

- help to capture more boss (become you special follower - here must be think about)

- choose a proper job (random based on a skill): servant, farmer, armoursmith, dragonslayer (********)...

- exile (remove the npc from the game)

2) pitfighter (in this way they will kill each other and only one survive): fighting and win on the arena tourneament (must be anyplace, even the cage) will give the freedom, but without redemption = same bastards same faction

3) spread a random diseas so they will die in the jail

 

(********) those felon that got freedom from the dovakin could enjoy a new guild called THE DRAGONSLAYERS (with basic setup in one place...), becouse the blade sucks: a dragonborn must to do what the blades say? i don't think so!

 

C: things about the guards

1) the corrupted guards will lost their title and properties (if they have) 

2) could become beggar, or join the thieves guild, so the thane can arrest them, or become assassin and ambush you, so you must kill them.

3) execution seems to much, but a public punishment on sunday afternoon coul give some fun at the people.

4) redemption, but the must go to jail for x days

 

 

edit:

+ the concept of redemption could be apply in some way to the dovakin too:

1- after made some of the Thieves Guild quest, you could have an option for getting redemption, after become a thane.

2- if you become leader of the Thieves Guild, you could have a similar redemption option, to disband the guild or altering the identity: like a dragonborn you have a responsability and after a soul-searching you realize that the Thieves Guild members can pay for their guilty becoming the defendors of skyrim from the dragons attack and joing the DRAGONSLAYERS GUILD  that will reside in the The Ragged Flagon: the members must follow a strict honour code after a vow.

 

 

in this way you could disband the guild as soon as you become a thane or having more option to enjoy the Thieves Guild questline with the self-redemption at the end

 

A) The title of Thane doesn't grant the right to arrest people. A Thane is a high title in the Jarl's court, surely they won't be dealing with low-life scum like the Thieves Guild would they? And second problem, the way you become Thane of Riften is already coded in to Skyrim, so you need to do the two quests The Raid & Supply and Demand first, then you have to buy a house in Riften (Honeyside) and help 5 NPCs before you will become Thane of Riften. I don't think other users of the mod will go to some much trouble to arrest some thieves.

 

B) Redemption, I seriously doubt how this could be pulled off, there is no Condition Function I could connect to the dialogue you want me to implement. Secondly this would endanger the way the quest Disband the Thieves Guild works, to proceed to stage 40 (Return to Jarl Laila Law-Giver to receive your reward) there need to be 15 thieves who execute/have executed the PrisonersSandbox0x0 AI Package, if you will release them and arrest them again you will potentially break the quest by manipulating the number of arrested thieves counted. Finally, I think you don't know how AI Packages work, you can set the day of the week, the duration of the package (max 24 hours, an AI Package controls a NPC's day not his life), Date and Month (this is useless because the Day of the week and Date and Month are fixed and not variables) but that's it. And pitfighter, spreading random disease so they all will die? I've made the Destroy the Thieves Guild mod if you want to kill them personally.

 

C) The first thing I can do, the second, third and fourth I can not, far way too complex (the assassin ambushing you is completely random and controlled by a WI quest on which the alias is already filled (I can't force the guard in this alias), the guard doesn't have the voicetype MaleDrunk so he can't become a beggar, I think putting him in jail automatically would be a better solution so the Disband the Thieves Guild can have a fixed number of people you need to arrest, the public punishment is also impossible as there is no such scene in the vanilla game of Skyrim to my recollection).


Edited by bruce142, 27 September 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#7
BurtFreeman

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they are just ideas, you don't have to do.

 

anyway few more input

Locaster made good job about the public punishment, since become king of riverhelm, and even better on the upcaming Become Jarl of Ivasted.

 

about the beggar, i think changing the faction of the guard into beggar will be fine.

 

about the days in the jail: the days doesn't matter, becouse the dialogue will be avaible only when the dovakin will go back to visit the jail (i think a trigger that count a days, for example 100, is not impossiblr to do).

 

about redemption, once release the guy you must change the faction concording to the dialogue option, so you'll never arrest him again, at least if there is not a condition that the fellow become of the thieves faction again.

 

about pitfighter - diseas: is just becouse you don't have to kill anybody: will be game events.

 

about a Thane: you can think like a public prosecutor - district attorney: is not so far away from the reality that an important people have the most important job, like clean up a city from the criminality.

 

At the end there is always a turn around to make simple what seem impossible.

 

ciao, see you later



#8
101VRanger

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other guards: not neccesary for me, we/I have already PLENTY of followers ALL OVER the game. Up to you.

 

The guards would be temporally followers as long the quest Disband the Thieves Guild is running, meaning they will assist you in arresting the Thieves Guild members but when they are all in jail, the guard followers will be automatically dismissed. 

 

allow more than one thief jailed: awesome!! u refer to the Ragged Flagon or cistern ones?? couple of them possibly?? not Sapphire right?? 

 

No, you need to put every thief in jail to complete the quest, no exception, but with the one than more thief I mean that you can take multiple Thief Guild members at once to jail instead of walking 15 times to the Ragged Flagon/Ragged Flagon - Cistern/Bee and Barb/Riften Market Place/Riften Docks to Riften Jail and back.

 

corrupt guard: the one from u meet when u first step into Riften?? I always wanted to kill him for being so disrespectful to the Dragonborn ... but ... if that's not possible ... at least you should vanish him from the game after Laila Law-Giver "supposedly" dealt with him ... maybe spawn his corpse somewhere, not within Riften city (with a note explaining why/how/when he was expelled from city)?

the better would be spawning him away from Riften like if Laila expelled him from Riften so we can kill him or let him leave through a dialog.

 

I was thinking about either exiling him (strip him of his rank as guard and let him leave Riften), putting him in jail (I have still room open in the jail box of Niruin and Mercer Frey) or let him be executed (although this seems harsh, this was common in the Medieval times). I shall make this a poll question as well.

 

 

- follower guards: temporary followers to arrest TG members?? ok then ... nice idea. Do these temp followers leave any missing scripts after dismissing?

 

- thieves arrested: 15 with no exceptions?? hmm... the multiple arrests are far more logical then. Shame about Sapphire though but well ... you know what can be done or not.

How many u plan to arrest each time? 3, 4? would be a surprise?? :wink:

 

- corrupt guard: yep, skyrim seems like a medieval environment IMHO so, executing him would be ok, or exiling him. No chances to exile him somewhere, turn him hostile to later kill him? like giving him a hostile faction -like forsworns- spawning him close to these thugs here or there to randomly meet him? 

 

- redemption: seems far too complicated according to what u said and might mess things up. After all the damage they've done to the city according to what people babble ALL the time, wouldn't make much sense ... unless u redeem only few TG characters, which seems to be impossible.

 

thanks a lot keep up the IMPRESSIVE work :yes:


Edited by 101VRanger, 28 September 2013 - 02:49 PM.


#9
rhowington

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I really don't care about anyone but Sapphire. I think she deserves a chance at redemption and a life.



#10
SpockST

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Perhaps a select few of the TG could be recruited into a new clan that helps the Dragonborn to fight injustice? Recruit the members you can and then torch the TG.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: disband the thieves guild, thieves guild, destroy the thieves guild, arrest, jail, jarl laila law-giver, brynjolf, brawling, persuade

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