Simple Cyclic Rules Error I Can't Quite Wrap My Head Around

[VoidGenon]

Hi! It's just a simple cyclic rules error that I need some help to understand and resolve. I'm trying to mod Fallout 4.

 

So there are basically 3 mods that are causing the problem.

 

I have a plugin rule that states Mod A must load after Mod B and another rule for Mod C to load after Mod A.

 

 

I don't really understand why when auto sorting happens, LOOT always tries to load Mod B after Mod C, causing the cycle to occur.

 

 

From what I can tell, there are no mod conflicts between Mod B and Mod C yet LOOT always tries to load the former after the latter.

 

I thought that the explicit rule in Vortex that Mod A must load after Mod B and for Mod C to load after Mod A would mean that Mod B should load before Mod A and Mod C.

 

I tried putting a rule for Mod C to load after Mod B so that it would be understood that Mod B must load before Mod A and Mod C but LOOT still tries to load Mod B after Mod C.

 

Thing is, I can't use the suggestion of Vortex to remove the rule of Mod A after Mod B or Mod C after Mod A because I really need those to happen. I just don't need Mod B to also load after Mod C.

 

 

I don't really understand the logic of the plugin rules and LOOT sorting so I'm hoping someone would also explain how it to me is so I can resolve it myself next time. Thanks!

[Pickysaurus]

Can you provide links to the three mods in question?

 

It's going to be something in the LOOT Masterlist that doesn't like your custom rules.

[VoidGenon]

Mod A - Immersive Gameplay

Mod B - Better Locational Damage

Mod C - Unlimited Fusion Core

 

I basically worked around the problem by removing immersive gameplay. While that has worked and I have already found a good alternative, I would still like to understand why it doesn't work the way I thought it should. Also, how does LOOT masterlist work with my custom rules? I figured that my custom rules would take priority. Might help me resolve this problem on my own in case I encounter it in the future. Thanks!

 

Edit: Added some questions.

Edited June 27, 2022 by VoidGenon

[Guest deleted34304850]

unlimited fusion core is an esl and as such is permanently assigned to x'FE' in the load order with all other esl's

 

i'd probably not create a rule that tries to include an esl and non-esl files.

 

what happens if you don't include unlimited fusion core in your rules? can you get the other two to place nice?

[VoidGenon]

If I remove the rule for unlimited and immersive, the former mod would be rendered obselete because they both edit the same values in the Power Armor.

 

So ESLs and non-ESL files don't play nice together then? I didn't know that. I guess that's the root of the problem then huh? Does this mean that ESPs have priority over ESLs regardless of custom rules?

[Guest deleted34304850]

esl's are fine - you just need to be aware that they are permanently assigned x'FE' in the load order and won't change.

 

as for the esp's - put the one you want to "win" to load AFTER the other one - that way you get the function of the first mod entirely - but the function that both mods update will reflect the mod that loads last/after the other. you can set a rule so that mod b should load after mod a in vortex and that will be all you need to do.

 

leave the esl as-is, and that should - hopefully - remove the cyclcal rule issue you've faced.

Edited June 28, 2022 by 1ae0bfb8

[Pickysaurus]

I think 1ae0bfb8 is right, you're trying to force a Light Master (ESL) to load after a regular plugin (ESP) which the game cannot do, removing this rule appears to correct the cycle.

[Tannin42]

Files with extension .esl are implicitly masters, they can't load after a non-master esp (just as .esm can't load after non-master .esp)

If that's the cause then that's not even LOOT masterlist being an issue, the engine just doesn't allow it and LOOT warns you about that.

 

Also: See how those arrows in the cycle are link-colored? You can click them to see why that link exists.