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texture swaps and creating the archive

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#1
greekrage

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Im having a small issue (big actually )...

Everything looks fine in creation kit but when i create the archive and go ingame most of my texture swaps are reverted to the default texture of the object.(these are textures and material from the vanilla game)

My question which i hope is the answer...

When the list comes up while creating the archive ....i see all the textures,material etc ive used....(both 3rd party and vanilla)

Do i remove the vanilla assets from the archive  ? and then pack ?

Are these assets conflicting ?



#2
84Cronos

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Which method of creating the archive are you using? The CK or Archive2? Are you using precombines/previs as well?

#3
greekrage

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Which method of creating the archive are you using? The CK or Archive2? Are you using precombines/previs as well?

Yes its a complete process with precombines...and previs  all with the CK

Also forgot to mention that when creating all this stuff  and making it easier to work i extracted all the archives... but made the mistake of doing it into the data folder where they would be ...

 

So when CK  tries to create the archive it sees the loose files i used and adds them all to the list even though they are vanilla...

 

Imagine  without removing the vanilla assets that the archive becomes about 1GB  and with filtering out the vanilla from the pack list its about 230Mb...

 

here is the achlist

 

https://ln5.sync.com...fnpa8x-x9nyq792


Edited by greekrage, 30 June 2022 - 01:56 PM.


#4
greekrage

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Well from what i figure the precombined geometry generation is causing the issue...  since everything works fine in both CK and in game prior to generating anything...

 

Worst thing is that the cells are heavily modded and a lot of objects are placed so disabling previs for the cells is out of the question.

 

Going to try making a few copies of the wall meshes  in separate folders  along with subfolders for textures and materials  and point to those and change the vanilla walls so it looks like they are custom..(yes i know i have to rebuild the materials with new file paths  :tongue: )...Ill probably have to edit the materials in the nifs too...

Still the issue remains of the CK  creating the archive with a lot of vanilla files that i used...meaning i may have to reinstall my data folder  and clean it out...and only add the 3rd party assets in subfolders..


Edited by greekrage, 30 June 2022 - 08:14 PM.


#5
84Cronos

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Well from what i figure the precombined geometry generation is causing the issue...  since everything works fine in both CK and in game prior to generating anything...

 

Worst thing is that the cells are heavily modded and a lot of objects are placed so disabling previs for the cells is out of the question.

 

Going to try making a few copies of the wall meshes  in separate folders  along with subfolders for textures and materials  and point to those and change the vanilla walls so it looks like they are custom..(yes i know i have to rebuild the materials with new file paths  :tongue: )...Ill probably have to edit the materials in the nifs too...

Still the issue remains of the CK  creating the archive with a lot of vanilla files that i used...meaning i may have to reinstall my data folder  and clean it out...and only add the 3rd party assets in subfolders..

 

That's the reason why I asked if you've generated precomb, because that usually breaks certain material swaps. So based on my testing, I noticed two different behaviors when it comes to precombines breaking matswaps:

 

1.) Matswaps done directly for the base object with this weird little preview screen where you select the new material. An example for this would be the post war coffee machine or w/e it's called, which has a prewar base mesh and then a weird material swap that was done this way as a new post war object. Those "custom" matswaps are prone to break afaik.

 

2.) Matswaps which were merely done as an entry under the matswap list. These don't seem to break afaik. An example would be the post war matswap for the pre war coffee machine, lol. The same goes for certain other objects like picture frames, barrels and other objects which have prewar versions.

 

 

 

So according to my testing, you should be fine as long as you setup and use the matswaps properly. In addition to that, I would be using the archive2 bethesda program to create your archive, since the CK is known to include things that don't necessarily belong to your mod. Kinggath has a very good video about that topic on youtube. If you're still having problems with certain objects and their matswaps breaking after precombines, you can still disable them(the objects) before generating precombines and enable the objects again later or you assign an enable parent to an object, which makes it so that it's excluded from the precomb process.


Edited by 84Cronos, 01 July 2022 - 12:16 AM.


#6
greekrage

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Well from what i figure the precombined geometry generation is causing the issue...  since everything works fine in both CK and in game prior to generating anything...

 

Worst thing is that the cells are heavily modded and a lot of objects are placed so disabling previs for the cells is out of the question.

 

Going to try making a few copies of the wall meshes  in separate folders  along with subfolders for textures and materials  and point to those and change the vanilla walls so it looks like they are custom..(yes i know i have to rebuild the materials with new file paths  :tongue: )...Ill probably have to edit the materials in the nifs too...

Still the issue remains of the CK  creating the archive with a lot of vanilla files that i used...meaning i may have to reinstall my data folder  and clean it out...and only add the 3rd party assets in subfolders..

 

That's the reason why I asked if you've generated precbom/previs, because that usually breaks certain material swaps. So based on my testing, I noticed two different behaviors when it comes to precombines breaking mat swaps:

 

1.) Matswaps done directly for the base object with this weird little preview screen where you select the new material. An example for this would be the post war coffee machine or w/e it's called, which has a prewar base mesh and then a weird material swap that was done this way as a new post war object. Those matswaps are prone to break afaik.

 

2.) Matswaps which were merely done as an entry under the matswap list. These don't seem to break afaik. An example would be the post war matswap for the pre war coffee machine, lol. The same goes for certain other objects like picture frames, barrels and other objects which have prewar versions.

 

 

 

So according to my testing, you should be fine as long as you setup and use the matswaps properly. In addition to that, I would be using the archive2 bethesda program to create your archive, since the CK is known to include things that don't necessarily belong to your mod. Kinggath has a very good video about that topic on youtube.

 

Thank  you...

Im trying to gather up the courage to redo many many objects  with their own swaps. Or  change the objects  back to vanilla (had them duplicated and renamed  for each variation in textures ).... BUT i still have to fix my data folder that is a mess...  Its weird though how a swap on a chair works but the same material on a wall (wood panel texture) is  broken...... Im guessing its because  precombines arent generated for certain objects..that are movable..as apposed to something like a wall where my biggest  issue is...  If youve seen my pics in my profile..there is a McDonalds  type diner... The parts of the outside  revert to default after precombs  but objects in side like counters etc that used the same texture swaps are fine..



#7
84Cronos

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Well from what i figure the precombined geometry generation is causing the issue...  since everything works fine in both CK and in game prior to generating anything...

 

Worst thing is that the cells are heavily modded and a lot of objects are placed so disabling previs for the cells is out of the question.

 

Going to try making a few copies of the wall meshes  in separate folders  along with subfolders for textures and materials  and point to those and change the vanilla walls so it looks like they are custom..(yes i know i have to rebuild the materials with new file paths  :tongue: )...Ill probably have to edit the materials in the nifs too...

Still the issue remains of the CK  creating the archive with a lot of vanilla files that i used...meaning i may have to reinstall my data folder  and clean it out...and only add the 3rd party assets in subfolders..

 

That's the reason why I asked if you've generated precbom/previs, because that usually breaks certain material swaps. So based on my testing, I noticed two different behaviors when it comes to precombines breaking mat swaps:

 

1.) Matswaps done directly for the base object with this weird little preview screen where you select the new material. An example for this would be the post war coffee machine or w/e it's called, which has a prewar base mesh and then a weird material swap that was done this way as a new post war object. Those matswaps are prone to break afaik.

 

2.) Matswaps which were merely done as an entry under the matswap list. These don't seem to break afaik. An example would be the post war matswap for the pre war coffee machine, lol. The same goes for certain other objects like picture frames, barrels and other objects which have prewar versions.

 

 

 

So according to my testing, you should be fine as long as you setup and use the matswaps properly. In addition to that, I would be using the archive2 bethesda program to create your archive, since the CK is known to include things that don't necessarily belong to your mod. Kinggath has a very good video about that topic on youtube.

 

Thank  you...

Im trying to gather up the courage to redo many many objects  with their own swaps. Or  change the objects  back to vanilla (had them duplicated and renamed  for each variation in textures ).... BUT i still have to fix my data folder that is a mess...  Its weird though how a swap on a chair works but the same material on a wall (wood panel texture) is  broken...... Im guessing its because  precombines arent generated for certain objects..that are movable..as apposed to something like a wall where my biggest  issue is...  If youve seen my pics in my profile..there is a McDonalds  type diner... The parts of the outside  revert to default after precombs  but objects in side like counters etc that used the same texture swaps are fine..

 

 

Yes, your assumption is correct, activators are excluded from precombines. Doing matswaps in the matswap list and "scrolling" to the one you need with your object is always the right way to do it afaik. It seems that even Bethesda realized this, once the precombine system was in place, which is why they added certain matswaps that way later on instead of using the "integrated" matswaps for objects. In addition to that, as you've noticed, this also makes everything more organized - no need for a gazillion of "new" objects only because of matswaps.
 



#8
greekrage

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Well from what i figure the precombined geometry generation is causing the issue...  since everything works fine in both CK and in game prior to generating anything...

 

Worst thing is that the cells are heavily modded and a lot of objects are placed so disabling previs for the cells is out of the question.

 

Going to try making a few copies of the wall meshes  in separate folders  along with subfolders for textures and materials  and point to those and change the vanilla walls so it looks like they are custom..(yes i know i have to rebuild the materials with new file paths  :tongue: )...Ill probably have to edit the materials in the nifs too...

Still the issue remains of the CK  creating the archive with a lot of vanilla files that i used...meaning i may have to reinstall my data folder  and clean it out...and only add the 3rd party assets in subfolders..

 

That's the reason why I asked if you've generated precbom/previs, because that usually breaks certain material swaps. So based on my testing, I noticed two different behaviors when it comes to precombines breaking mat swaps:

 

1.) Matswaps done directly for the base object with this weird little preview screen where you select the new material. An example for this would be the post war coffee machine or w/e it's called, which has a prewar base mesh and then a weird material swap that was done this way as a new post war object. Those matswaps are prone to break afaik.

 

2.) Matswaps which were merely done as an entry under the matswap list. These don't seem to break afaik. An example would be the post war matswap for the pre war coffee machine, lol. The same goes for certain other objects like picture frames, barrels and other objects which have prewar versions.

 

 

 

So according to my testing, you should be fine as long as you setup and use the matswaps properly. In addition to that, I would be using the archive2 bethesda program to create your archive, since the CK is known to include things that don't necessarily belong to your mod. Kinggath has a very good video about that topic on youtube.

 

Thank  you...

Im trying to gather up the courage to redo many many objects  with their own swaps. Or  change the objects  back to vanilla (had them duplicated and renamed  for each variation in textures ).... BUT i still have to fix my data folder that is a mess...  Its weird though how a swap on a chair works but the same material on a wall (wood panel texture) is  broken...... Im guessing its because  precombines arent generated for certain objects..that are movable..as apposed to something like a wall where my biggest  issue is...  If youve seen my pics in my profile..there is a McDonalds  type diner... The parts of the outside  revert to default after precombs  but objects in side like counters etc that used the same texture swaps are fine..

 

 

Yes, your assumption is correct, activators are excluded from precombines. Doing matswaps in the matswap list and "scrolling" to the one you need with your object is always the right way to do it afaik. It seems that even Bethesda realized this, once the precombine system was in place, which is why they added certain matswaps that way later on instead of using the "integrated" matswaps for objects. In addition to that, as you've noticed, this also makes everything more organized - no need for a gazillion of "new" objects only because of matswaps.
 

 

IM about 99.999% at a solution for my diner issue at least... It  seems that if i take the whole diner and make it a scol  it keeps the texture swaps...the only test on that is to do precombines again...with the scol in place of the old diner. Then i have to figure out what to do about certain walls in other buildings that have the same issue...(maybe scol those as well :P )



#9
greekrage

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AND WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

 

So it seems that precombined generation cannot ignore texture swaps when they are part of a scol...

This is the diner that kept going to vanilla textures.. Now the whole thing is a scol  and precomb/previs was generated but it stayed as intended this time...

4cHbGm.jpg

Now this next to it is a gunshop that had  been done in a steel (prydwen ceiling)... that did the same crap...

In the pic i tried making the whole awning into a scol....and again the scol stayed as intended but several other parts with the same exact texture swap reverted to their original vanilla textures when prec/previs was generated...

 

6Bcugw.jpg



#10
Zorkaz

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Just as a general rule, precombs do not only mess with external texture swaps but also sometimes fences and stairs can loose collision. So always check this out and create a backup before doing this







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