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Possible to make bushes work as concealment cover? (Idea in post)

cover combat flora navmesh

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#1
RaidersClamoring

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I want to make bushes, vines and possibly other de facto (or realistically) internally traversable objects work as cover that remove or greatly lessen the chance for enemies to gain line-of-sight by having triggers built into them that activate a cloak, preferably without producing the actual stealthboy effect, once stepped into/behind, while also removing collision in cases where it exists for these pieces of flora. Placing NavMesh "covers" into them is also something I'd like to do, so that companions/settlers and perhaps even enemies will consider these bushes/vines.

Afaik what's needed is, as mentioned, 

Somehow removing collision for landscape objects
Adding triggers (activators?)

Effect Shader reconfiguration

LOS manipulation in script

Is this a viable idea as presented? What else can be done to achieve this end?



#2
Dreadshow

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I think it would be easier to use the light/shadow source sneak effect and apply it to bushes. Like how light and shadow affect detection, not sure how this could be done.

 

Also it would be an hassle to maintain patches for all the greenery mods out there; A Forest, Luxor's Summer, Another Pine Forest, etc.



#3
84Cronos

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Most flora pieces like bushes and vines don't have collision anyway, since it would be a pain to navigate levels otherwise.

#4
SKK50

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This is actually a MASSIVE issue in escape from tarkov where players can't see through grass textures but AI can for instant head/eyes.

 

The grass textures have no collision to trigger noise or block perception raycasts.

 

The developer suggests that trying to add that volume of colliders could be game breaking.

 

OK thats on Unity not creation engine but the engineering principles are similer (I work with both).



#5
RaidersClamoring

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This is actually a MASSIVE issue in escape from tarkov where players can't see through grass textures but AI can for instant head/eyes.

 

The grass textures have no collision to trigger noise or block perception raycasts.

 

The developer suggests that trying to add that volume of colliders could be game breaking.

 

OK thats on Unity not creation engine but the engineering principles are similer (I work with both).

Sounds like a considerable challenge then, which I'll accept simply because it is one. :D

So how about the cloak + area trigger as a workaround? A kind of wrapper. Which the 'cover' mesh will amount to as well but for a different purpose.



#6
RaidersClamoring

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I think it would be easier to use the light/shadow source sneak effect and apply it to bushes. Like how light and shadow affect detection, not sure how this could be done.

 

Also it would be an hassle to maintain patches for all the greenery mods out there; A Forest, Luxor's Summer, Another Pine Forest, etc.

 

This will require hard work and upkeep? I'm binning this idea. Maybe should create some 'tweak' mod instead... :D



#7
hereami

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Could be interesting though. I don't know much about nifs, but i know there can be invisible trigger box model which acts as a trigger primitive without specifying primitive data in refr (if placed into Activator form), also don't know if a model can have deliberate collision layer other than be a trigger box, but if actually can, then a uniform custom invisible model with L_DETECTION might be created and then placed at selection of noticeable bush-looking things by their OnLoad() event as separate objects. Still would involve edits of every suitable base form to add the spawning script, but won't be as massive as editing every model (in case if integrated primitive volume complementary to visible model is doable in a single nif) or placed refr to add said collision layer. Won't be exact match of visible vs invisible parts, but could be adjusted at some extent by GetScale/SetScale if necessary. Not sure if actors can be enabled to exploit it consciously**, as i understand cover-enabled obstacles for AI can be only specified in CK anyway as part of navmesh or something, can't be spawned.

 

Existing alternative to custom L_DETECTION nif. As said there are invisilbe TriggerBox models in game files already and could be placed at runtime as Activator in same way OnLoad or maybe else, but needs more processing like Enter/Exit events and magic, also careful match of scale somehow since they have preset size and shape. Effect could be some dramatic like Set Undetectable (haha, eternal glory to Bush wookies of Nuclear Winter), or just Mod Detection Light or something (perk entries).

 

** ps. Though maybe.. If to mark objects with a keyword, then a custom combat override package could search for it and command to sit there while npc is fleeing, or maybe root packages modification too. However, a problem would be to specify said override for every interested character without interfering with too many forms.


Edited by hereami, 07 July 2022 - 09:17 AM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: cover, combat, flora, navmesh

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