Reasonable Karma

[Anguti222]

The Karma system in New Vegas is botched, it's extremely easy to maintain good karma no matter what you have done just by mass murdering Fiends, Powder Gangers and feral ghouls. It's very difficult to maintain evil or neutral karma without engaging in petty theft constantly because of these issues.

 

Spoilers ahead.

 

Many NPCs that should be good have neutral karma, while others have good karma even when they have questionable morals.

 

There are also some actions that should give negative karma such as grave robbery is treated as neutral, while others that should give positive karma such as mercy killing crucified people does not change karma.

 

Killing Fiends, Powder Gangers and feral ghouls should not give positive karma, but you shouldn't get negative karma for stealing from Powder Gangers as they are just raiders with dynamite.

 

Killing named Fiends and Powder Gangers should give positive karma, the Fiend leaders are some of the sickest people in the Mojave. Cobb, Eddie and Scrambler are definitely evil bastards, Hannigan, Carter and Dawes are a bit more questionable, but they are certainly immoral so it makes sense to get good karma for killing them. Meyers isn't a bad guy, even though he is a bit ruthless.

 

The Powder Gangers in Vault 19 are much more neutral, except for Cooke, who practically created a raider gang, was apparently blowing stuff up even before he was arrested and plans to do something that qualifies as terrorism.

 

Caesar's Legion are marauding slavers, the only reason they aren't complete evil is because they keep their free citizens from being butchered by raiders, that doesn't make up for their all the rape, sexism, torture, slavery and slaughter they do. Stealing from them shouldn't affect karma at all.

 

Killing unnamed legionaries, including the centurions in the last battle, shouldn't affect karma, mainly because evil or neutral karma characters that aren't aligned with legion would have issues maintaining their karma.

 

Killing named legionaries should give positive karma. Vulpes Inculta, the centurions at Hoover Dam and Legate Lanius aren't the only bad guys in the Legion, they are all bad guys.

 

Freeing slaves such as the Weathers in Left My Heart and the captured Powder Gangers in Booted should give positive karma, from what I've seen, freeing the Weathers does not affect karma, you only get good karma by convincing Frank Weathers to stop being abusive.

 

The NCR has some decent folks in it, but the only ones I have seen with good karma are the hostages(you should get good karma for getting them released too) in Boulder City and the doctors, not even Colonel Hsu has good karma, which makes no sense whatsoever considering his character.

 

The NCR NPCs that IMO should have good karma are Colonel Hsu, Ranger Sterling, Lieutenant Gorobets, Major Dhatri and Ranger Andy. Colonel Hsu because he is the only high ranking officer that hasn't done something to make things worse, unlike Chief Hanlon who has an entire quest that uncovers his wrongdoings and his goals would leave the Mojave in the grasp of Legion, he is neutral, as he should be. Colonel Moore is vicious and brutal, neutral or evil. General Oliver is an obtrusive jerk who is jealous of Hanlon, allowed the Powder Gangers to be created by relocating NCRCF guards and his plan would screw the NCR and the rest of the Mojave over without interference, neutral or evil.

 

Contreras should be evil, considering he is a sleazy, corrupt arms dealer. Dr. Hildern is coldblooded, sending multiple mercenaries to die without losing any sleep over it, and taking credit for Angela's work and yet he has good karma even though he should be neutral or evil. Angela Williams has neutral karma despite being genuinely concerned about Keely and the mercenaries Hildern hired, including the Courier.

 

Sterling, Gorobets, Dhatri and Andy are quite admirable, Sterling is a survivor, his loyalty unquestionable, even with his hands crippled and thrown out of the rangers, he still serves NCR as a First Recon. Gorobets is the leader of First Recon, his concern for his subordinates is clear. Dhatri did his best to keep the Bittersprings massacre from getting worse and adopted Bitter Root, raising him to make up for the massacre. Andy is a former Ranger, he would be out fighting the legion if he hadn't been crippled by a legion grenade carried by a slave child, willing to teach his moves to the Courier for restoring his pride or for telling him about station Charlie.

 

The Khans are drug peddlers who supplies the fiends with chems and are allied with legion, but the only one that seems to be truly evil is Oscar Velasco because he murders innocent refugees in petty revenge. Papa Khan is nearly blinded with vengeance, but he is willing to listen to his subordinates. Regis is reasonable and willing to cooperate with the courier. Melissa dragged her father into crime, but she is just an average Khan otherwise, and she supports the Courier if she is told that the Legion are sexist slavers. Jack and Diane are kinda screwed up, but they love each other and Jack can be convinced to make healing chems. Jerry the Punk is just a kid that wants to have a family.

 

The Strip generally seems to have have well implemented karma, except for Heck Gunderson who is a ruthless and relentless brahmin baron who gained his fortune by making mercenaries run off his competition and would gladly attempt to destroy the Strip if he gets angry enough, and Crocker who has the same issue as some other NCR members have, a good person that should have good karma but is neutral for some reason.

 

The Followers of the Apocalypse are generally good, the only one with questionable morals being Anderson, who is a murderer that helps run an illegal operation. However, the only named members with good karma that I know of are Julie Farkas and Ignacio Rivas. Usanagi, Emily Ortal and Arcade Gannon all have neutral karma for some reason, another NPC that should have good karma is Elizabeth Kieran, an NCR friend of Julie Farkas who wants to supply Freeside.

 

Freeside in general is quite neutral, the Garret twins are questionable, but they aren't evil as they are willing to help the Followers. McCaffery should be evil as he is arrogant and amoral. The Van Graffs are evil as they should be. The Kings are pretty decent for a gang, but their tolerance of Pacer, abusive treatment of squatters and their unwillingness to reconcile with NCR makes them morally grey, except for The King who keeps his gang in check and helps the people who needs it the most and is willing to negotiate with NCR if the Courier helps him out and tells the truth about Pacer and Kieran.

 

Alice McLafferty is definitely evil, she schemes with Gloria to destroy other caravan companies to get a monopoly and she wants the courier to steal blueprints from the Gunrunners, though she doesn't hold it against the Courier if he/she refuses.

 

The Mojave chapter of Brotherhood of Steel aren't like the knights in shining armor in the Capital Wasteland, they are ruthless, stubborn and the only truly reasonable member is Veronica. Really, the only member that should have positive karma is McNamara because he saved the chapter after they lost Helios One, the rest are neutral because this chapter has no interest in helping anyone but themselves. You shouldn't even lose karma for destroying the bunker, losing Veronica is bad enough.

 

With these changes, the Karma system would make more sense and the courier would no longer have infinite access to positive karma.

 

If anyone wants to add anything to this, feel free to make a comment.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Anguti222

[Gerandirr]

Well, for the unreasonable karma gain, I installed This mod (Killing Karma Rewards Removed by Dynastia).

On the matter of NPCs having inapropriate karma levels : I don't think anyone would have the kind of time to edit every single one of them.

So, don't hope much on that front. Sorry.

Theft in Fallout games, should be about being smart enough not to get caught. Hey, it's a harsh (waste)land.

If that dude in the lousy shack is dumb enough to leave his valuables on the display, with his back turned on a complete stranger, then I say he deserved to get relived of his stuff.

I found This other mod. (No karma loss for stealing by oldnotweak). Now, I didn't test this, so I don't know if it really does what it supposed to do, but it has a good premise.

I think theft in general should be handeled like any other act of crime. You're caught, you have to fight your way out, or die.

No stupid ''you were a bad boy/girl, shame on you'' message.

Anyways. I hope this helped.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Gerandirr

[Anguti222]

I'll use the no kill karma perk, thanks.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Anguti222