49 replies to this topic

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #117118963.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

[dagaz74]

In response to post #117118963. #117122878 is also a reply to the same post.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

Pickysaurus wrote: I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

so people who write "nothing works" "I wasted my time" "the collection is outdated do not download it" and maybe they have 1 reply, does it all make sense to you?
really?
If you want to tell me we have decided so, so okay, I tell you ok, the site is yours, but do not question something that I have been checking every day for months because I simply care. Others may tell you that this doesn't make sense.
I don't say I don't want negative votes, but: 1) I make videos to show what the collection is like so you can't download it and then say it sucks 2) the collection works, you can't write (or not write but take for granted) that it does not work without asking for help.
Do you understand what I'm trying to prove? Negative votes are fine if it makes sense, but the quantities of negative votes that are not motivated simply because it is free and because it is anonymous are useless and only hurt the curators.
Then if we want to hide behind a blade of grass and say that everything is fine without even opening a speech, do as you see fit, the site is yours as I have already said: but by doing so you end the desire to continue.

[GriffinIII]

In response to post #117118963. #117122878, #117123648 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

Pickysaurus wrote: I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

dagaz74 wrote: so people who write "nothing works" "I wasted my time" "the collection is outdated do not download it" and maybe they have 1 reply, does it all make sense to you?
really?
If you want to tell me we have decided so, so okay, I tell you ok, the site is yours, but do not question something that I have been checking every day for months because I simply care. Others may tell you that this doesn't make sense.
I don't say I don't want negative votes, but: 1) I make videos to show what the collection is like so you can't download it and then say it sucks 2) the collection works, you can't write (or not write but take for granted) that it does not work without asking for help.
Do you understand what I'm trying to prove? Negative votes are fine if it makes sense, but the quantities of negative votes that are not motivated simply because it is free and because it is anonymous are useless and only hurt the curators.
Then if we want to hide behind a blade of grass and say that everything is fine without even opening a speech, do as you see fit, the site is yours as I have already said: but by doing so you end the desire to continue.

Maybe your collections actually just suck? Kidding, but what you're asking for basically exists. Sorting by endorsements is like a vote with no negative vote and it's the default sorting mode. Looking at the F4 page you show up fairly high, and ratings vary wildly across that page. I only use Wabbajack so there might be things I miss in this discussion but much of this applies to any system.

I think negative votes serve a purpose of quickly showing that something is wrong, not everyone wants to submit a bug report or leave a comment. Even if you bug users in vortex to submit feedback repeatedly (don't add this btw) there will still be plenty of people who click past it. You cannot force interaction. Adopting the Steam rating system seems like a great idea and adjustments can be made to improve it.

I don't think removing information is the answer, as we saw with Youtube removing dislikes, and it's ultimately up to the user how well they use the information provided. People who were already going to carefully analyze comments before downloading will do so, people who grab the first pack at the top of the page will do so, people who see any hint of dissent and leave will do so.

I would like to see a way to view past votes and revise them. Lots of people revise their Steam ratings after something gets fixed, and they can be easily viewed in one spot on your account. This might be harder for Collections since there's no comment attached to votes but I think it's still something worth investigating. Maybe this is a thing and I can't see it because I haven't voted.



On a different note, you could serve to be a little less hostile in your opening paragraph on your collections. Yes it sucks to get negative feedback but verbally punishing new users before they've even done anything sets a bad tone. Personally if I see someone starting off a new conversation with a tinder "move on" I do exactly that, even though I rarely leave feedback at all. Just like that you've turned a potential download into a loss.

Also like, they're just mods. If you get downvoted to hell and nobody downloads your mod anymore who really cares? My favorite mod is not my most popular, I make them for fun. To quote your own page, "...ask yourself first what you are doing with your life. :)"

Edited by GriffinIII, 01 November 2022 - 04:37 pm.

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #117120903. #117124353 is also a reply to the same post.

Spoiler

84Cronos wrote: I'm thankful for all the curators who take the time to create these awesome collections, but can we, the mod authors, please get some kind of indication which collections are including our mods? That would be very helpful.

Xayjyn wrote: Precisely why this system is never going to work unless it's gamed to fuck and back. Why would anyone ever bother posting a mod here?

"Here's my content i have ZERO control over."

Utter horseshit.

We've mentioned that feature specifically in the "What's next?" section at the bottom ;) 

[dagaz74]

In response to post #117118963. #117122878, #117123648, #117123738 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

Pickysaurus wrote: I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

dagaz74 wrote: so people who write "nothing works" "I wasted my time" "the collection is outdated do not download it" and maybe they have 1 reply, does it all make sense to you?
really?
If you want to tell me we have decided so, so okay, I tell you ok, the site is yours, but do not question something that I have been checking every day for months because I simply care. Others may tell you that this doesn't make sense.
I don't say I don't want negative votes, but: 1) I make videos to show what the collection is like so you can't download it and then say it sucks 2) the collection works, you can't write (or not write but take for granted) that it does not work without asking for help.
Do you understand what I'm trying to prove? Negative votes are fine if it makes sense, but the quantities of negative votes that are not motivated simply because it is free and because it is anonymous are useless and only hurt the curators.
Then if we want to hide behind a blade of grass and say that everything is fine without even opening a speech, do as you see fit, the site is yours as I have already said: but by doing so you end the desire to continue.

GriffinIII wrote: Maybe your collections actually just suck? Kidding, but what you're asking for basically exists. Sorting by endorsements is like a vote with no negative vote and it's the default sorting mode. Looking at the F4 page you show up fairly high, and ratings vary wildly across that page. I only use Wabbajack so there might be things I miss in this discussion but much of this applies to any system.

I think negative votes serve a purpose of quickly showing that something is wrong, not everyone wants to submit a bug report or leave a comment. Even if you bug users in vortex to submit feedback repeatedly (don't add this btw) there will still be plenty of people who click past it. You cannot force interaction. Adopting the Steam rating system seems like a great idea and adjustments can be made to improve it.

I don't think removing information is the answer, as we saw with Youtube removing dislikes, and it's ultimately up to the user how well they use the information provided. People who were already going to carefully analyze comments before downloading will do so, people who grab the first pack at the top of the page will do so, people who see any hint of dissent and leave will do so.

I would like to see a way to view past votes and revise them. Lots of people revise their Steam ratings after something gets fixed, and they can be easily viewed in one spot on your account. This might be harder for Collections since there's no comment attached to votes but I think it's still something worth investigating. Maybe this is a thing and I can't see it because I haven't voted.



On a different note, you could serve to be a little less hostile in your opening paragraph on your collections. Yes it sucks to get negative feedback but verbally punishing new users before they've even done anything sets a bad tone. Personally if I see someone starting off a new conversation with a tinder "move on" I do exactly that, even though I rarely leave feedback at all. Just like that you've turned a potential download into a loss.

Also like, they're just mods. If you get downvoted to hell and nobody downloads your mod anymore who really cares? My favorite mod is not my most popular, I make them for fun. To quote your own page, "...ask yourself first what you are doing with your life. :)"

I agree to have negative ratings, as you say, Steam is a great example: there is the name. you take responsibility. If I see a negative vote I read it, I try to understand the arguments. If it says "trash" I just don't consider it. I think steam has a great method. It hurts me when a person can't get it to work (maybe they get stuck at the ENB black screen or haven't activated all the plugins in the vortex TAB) and say "it sucks" or "it doesn't work".
So negative votes are welcome if motivated, but that way simply doesn't make any sense.
Try to understand the opening sentence, it is frustration for this condition: I don't need a negative vote just because you want to put it, but I want to help you to let you play what you see in my videos, as I have been helping everyone for several months now. So if I'm willing to help you, to talk, to understand what you don't like, why is it that a bunch of unidentified people simply have more power? This is what I try to explain and maybe google translate doesn't help me at best :D

Edited by dagaz74, 01 November 2022 - 05:19 pm.

[Xilandro]

In response to post #117121123. #117121703, #117122693 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

Xilandro wrote: Me and my unpopular opinion here.
Nice to see collections getting cool stuff and fixes and, oh look, a bugreport feature that seems to be actually good.
While we, content creators that all this collection goodness directly relies on, have been asking for bugreport fixes & improvs for years and got nothing.

LimeMods wrote: Fully agree with this. Need these features ported to Modpages.

Pickysaurus wrote: Everything we're building for Collections had been designed with mods in mind. When we rebuild mod pages on Nexus Mods Next we'll be able to use these features. 

Collections acts as a good test bed for new features before we roll them out to the masses on mod pages. We can also freely design features without being laboured by the existing (and sometimes quite unreliable) legacy data. If you have specific feature requests, make sure to submit them on our new Feedback page and vote on the ones you want to see. 

Iirc, Nexus Next was planned to launch (roughly) years ago. It's the same old story "you guys just wait a bit more, everything will happen. Just wait".
Adding "Beta uploads to gather feedback with delayed public release", "Please make bug tracker good", or "Make mod upload less painful" (with details of course) to new feedback page is no different than all those similar posts on forums for the last decade. Answer to them is always "yeah we're planning to do that, as soon as possible"
Not trying to disrespect you, I'd never, but even your answer here is pretty much that.
The problem with all of this - the wait never ends.
I understand that priority for things shifts and changes, and regular user experience is gonna be higher. And famous phrase "they b*** and whine, but keep using the site anyway" applies as well. But it shouldn't be an excuse to put important things into the backburner for so long.
Giving us better tools to manage our work means only one thing - we can make more mods with less headache. I've a dozen mods just sitting on my drive unreleased (or released privately), and #1 in top 3 reasons why, is "oh god, nexus upload, please no", #2 "bug report section is awful, it's hard to use, I don't want to use it, no surprise users ignore it as well", and #3 is "mod will be lost in the backlog, before I have a chance to gather enough feedback to fix the bugs, especially with the #2"

Eh, a bit rant'y reply, but I'm a very special pithecanthropus, I rant even when I'm trying to not to. Unga bunga, much love to yall <3

Edited by Xilandro, 01 November 2022 - 05:32 pm.

[RedMetalShield]

?To leave a bug report you must be logged in to a Nexus Mods account and have already downloaded the Collection. ?

So if my mods get featured in a collection, I have to download the collection first to add a bug report?
This is not very good in my opinion. From my experience I was able to spot conflicts/bugs in collections which featured my mods right away without downloading the collection, often because other mods in the Collections were heavily incompatible or redundant (which I would argue should count as a "bug"), or had indirect conflicts due to scripts.
I also don't even use Vortex, I use MO2. I don't want to install Vortex and entire collections to report (obvious or already known) bugs or incompatibilities.

Mod authors of mods featured in a collection should be able to report bugs as well without having to download the entire collections first, especially because some Curators tend to never look into their DMs.

[GriffinIII]

In response to post #117118963. #117122878, #117123648, #117123738, #117124858 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

Pickysaurus wrote: I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

dagaz74 wrote: so people who write "nothing works" "I wasted my time" "the collection is outdated do not download it" and maybe they have 1 reply, does it all make sense to you?
really?
If you want to tell me we have decided so, so okay, I tell you ok, the site is yours, but do not question something that I have been checking every day for months because I simply care. Others may tell you that this doesn't make sense.
I don't say I don't want negative votes, but: 1) I make videos to show what the collection is like so you can't download it and then say it sucks 2) the collection works, you can't write (or not write but take for granted) that it does not work without asking for help.
Do you understand what I'm trying to prove? Negative votes are fine if it makes sense, but the quantities of negative votes that are not motivated simply because it is free and because it is anonymous are useless and only hurt the curators.
Then if we want to hide behind a blade of grass and say that everything is fine without even opening a speech, do as you see fit, the site is yours as I have already said: but by doing so you end the desire to continue.

GriffinIII wrote: Maybe your collections actually just suck? Kidding, but what you're asking for basically exists. Sorting by endorsements is like a vote with no negative vote and it's the default sorting mode. Looking at the F4 page you show up fairly high, and ratings vary wildly across that page. I only use Wabbajack so there might be things I miss in this discussion but much of this applies to any system.

I think negative votes serve a purpose of quickly showing that something is wrong, not everyone wants to submit a bug report or leave a comment. Even if you bug users in vortex to submit feedback repeatedly (don't add this btw) there will still be plenty of people who click past it. You cannot force interaction. Adopting the Steam rating system seems like a great idea and adjustments can be made to improve it.

I don't think removing information is the answer, as we saw with Youtube removing dislikes, and it's ultimately up to the user how well they use the information provided. People who were already going to carefully analyze comments before downloading will do so, people who grab the first pack at the top of the page will do so, people who see any hint of dissent and leave will do so.

I would like to see a way to view past votes and revise them. Lots of people revise their Steam ratings after something gets fixed, and they can be easily viewed in one spot on your account. This might be harder for Collections since there's no comment attached to votes but I think it's still something worth investigating. Maybe this is a thing and I can't see it because I haven't voted.



On a different note, you could serve to be a little less hostile in your opening paragraph on your collections. Yes it sucks to get negative feedback but verbally punishing new users before they've even done anything sets a bad tone. Personally if I see someone starting off a new conversation with a tinder "move on" I do exactly that, even though I rarely leave feedback at all. Just like that you've turned a potential download into a loss.

Also like, they're just mods. If you get downvoted to hell and nobody downloads your mod anymore who really cares? My favorite mod is not my most popular, I make them for fun. To quote your own page, "...ask yourself first what you are doing with your life. :)"

dagaz74 wrote: I agree to have negative ratings, as you say, Steam is a great example: there is the name. you take responsibility. If I see a negative vote I read it, I try to understand the arguments. If it says "trash" I just don't consider it. I think steam has a great method. It hurts me when a person can't get it to work (maybe they get stuck at the ENB black screen or haven't activated all the plugins in the vortex TAB) and say "it sucks" or "it doesn't work".
So negative votes are welcome if motivated, but that way simply doesn't make any sense.
Try to understand the opening sentence, it is frustration for this condition: I don't need a negative vote just because you want to put it, but I want to help you to let you play what you see in my videos, as I have been helping everyone for several months now. So if I'm willing to help you, to talk, to understand what you don't like, why is it that a bunch of unidentified people simply have more power? This is what I try to explain and maybe google translate doesn't help me at best :D

Ah so it's a language barrier. Yeah google translate isn't quite working for whatever language you're using. Let me help you create a better opening paragraph then.

"This collection is very stable and I work hard to keep it that way. If you think you've found a bug please leave a bug report or comment and I'll do my best to help you! Please ask for help instead of just a dislike, it helps me improve the collection. My YouTube channel (www.youtube.com/c/vaultboy101mods) has examples of all of my mod collections, thanks for checking it out :)"

Unfortunately you'll never completely solve people not reading the description, but asking for feedback and giving a reason why it will help can only improve the chances.

[dagaz74]

In response to post #117118963. #117122878, #117123648, #117123738, #117124858, #117126118 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

dagaz74 wrote: What you did for the vote is completely wrong and different from what you said months ago. The problem is that for each game we have a couple of collections with positive or almost positive votes, all the others suck, pure garbage, to see the votes.
But the truth is that there is a sort of guild of crazed punishers :D that as soon as a collection gets positive votes and is above 80%, they arrive with an avalanche of negative votes.
Look at my collection of Fallout 4, it is a great effort not to lose the desire to carry it on because of these people: 1) a new revision comes out 2) I collect about twenty positive votes 3) come those from the guild or people who do not know nothing modding, they don't want to ask for help on the forum to be helped, and leave a negative vote.
WHAT ARE THESE NEGATIVE VOTES FOR? ARE THEY REALLY THE MIRROR OF THE GOODNESS OF ALL THESE COLLECTIONS THAT PASS FOR RUBBISH?
No, the answer is that the votes, as they are managed, are absolutely useless, and a global vote will make the collection even more disgusting, according to what will be printed on the screen.
Each revision of my collection (21 so far) ends with about 40% and red mark, so it is one of the most downloaded and used, thousands of compliments on youtube and people who appreciate the efforts I have made in the last two years towards mods of Nexus, but your score says it sucks.
DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?
It is the third time that I enter into the merits of the question, and I wonder why you do not want to do something that really does justice to the curators but go to privilege the guild of crazed punishers :)
What is needed? that a collection can be voted after it has been playing for a considerable amount of time, that a person takes responsibility for the vote (visible name) and there is a list of who voted but above all MAKES A POST FOR HELP OR A PRIVATE REQUEST AND ONLY AFTER CAN YOU VOTE.
Accounts with 1/2 post or made on purpose to leave a negative vote or an insult on the forum of the collection (there are, look at them), must not have the right to vote.
Furthermore, the truth is that unfortunately, all those who use a collection do not leave the positive vote and it is not possible to counter those idiots who leave a negative vote without reasonable reason. It would be right that if a person plays a collection or a mod for more than five hours, the positive vote, the endorse, starts automatically. Otherwise what's the point?
Am I asking too much and is it too difficult to code?
Perfect, take away the votes and let people confront each other on the forum.
At least let's go back to talking to each other a little and not to click buttons.
Because otherwise it's all useless, and I can't be the only curator to be so bitter.
I apologize for the wall of text and thanks for your attention.

Pickysaurus wrote: I've personally looked into this before and there was no evidence of abuse of the voting system, so I can say that your theory is incorrect. 

As to why collections get a lot of downvotes as they get more popular, we're hoping that bug reports will shed some light on this. We're considering having Vortex prompt the user to leave a bug report if they downvote a collection to help the curator understand what went wrong. 

dagaz74 wrote: so people who write "nothing works" "I wasted my time" "the collection is outdated do not download it" and maybe they have 1 reply, does it all make sense to you?
really?
If you want to tell me we have decided so, so okay, I tell you ok, the site is yours, but do not question something that I have been checking every day for months because I simply care. Others may tell you that this doesn't make sense.
I don't say I don't want negative votes, but: 1) I make videos to show what the collection is like so you can't download it and then say it sucks 2) the collection works, you can't write (or not write but take for granted) that it does not work without asking for help.
Do you understand what I'm trying to prove? Negative votes are fine if it makes sense, but the quantities of negative votes that are not motivated simply because it is free and because it is anonymous are useless and only hurt the curators.
Then if we want to hide behind a blade of grass and say that everything is fine without even opening a speech, do as you see fit, the site is yours as I have already said: but by doing so you end the desire to continue.

GriffinIII wrote: Maybe your collections actually just suck? Kidding, but what you're asking for basically exists. Sorting by endorsements is like a vote with no negative vote and it's the default sorting mode. Looking at the F4 page you show up fairly high, and ratings vary wildly across that page. I only use Wabbajack so there might be things I miss in this discussion but much of this applies to any system.

I think negative votes serve a purpose of quickly showing that something is wrong, not everyone wants to submit a bug report or leave a comment. Even if you bug users in vortex to submit feedback repeatedly (don't add this btw) there will still be plenty of people who click past it. You cannot force interaction. Adopting the Steam rating system seems like a great idea and adjustments can be made to improve it.

I don't think removing information is the answer, as we saw with Youtube removing dislikes, and it's ultimately up to the user how well they use the information provided. People who were already going to carefully analyze comments before downloading will do so, people who grab the first pack at the top of the page will do so, people who see any hint of dissent and leave will do so.

I would like to see a way to view past votes and revise them. Lots of people revise their Steam ratings after something gets fixed, and they can be easily viewed in one spot on your account. This might be harder for Collections since there's no comment attached to votes but I think it's still something worth investigating. Maybe this is a thing and I can't see it because I haven't voted.



On a different note, you could serve to be a little less hostile in your opening paragraph on your collections. Yes it sucks to get negative feedback but verbally punishing new users before they've even done anything sets a bad tone. Personally if I see someone starting off a new conversation with a tinder "move on" I do exactly that, even though I rarely leave feedback at all. Just like that you've turned a potential download into a loss.

Also like, they're just mods. If you get downvoted to hell and nobody downloads your mod anymore who really cares? My favorite mod is not my most popular, I make them for fun. To quote your own page, "...ask yourself first what you are doing with your life. :)"

dagaz74 wrote: I agree to have negative ratings, as you say, Steam is a great example: there is the name. you take responsibility. If I see a negative vote I read it, I try to understand the arguments. If it says "trash" I just don't consider it. I think steam has a great method. It hurts me when a person can't get it to work (maybe they get stuck at the ENB black screen or haven't activated all the plugins in the vortex TAB) and say "it sucks" or "it doesn't work".
So negative votes are welcome if motivated, but that way simply doesn't make any sense.
Try to understand the opening sentence, it is frustration for this condition: I don't need a negative vote just because you want to put it, but I want to help you to let you play what you see in my videos, as I have been helping everyone for several months now. So if I'm willing to help you, to talk, to understand what you don't like, why is it that a bunch of unidentified people simply have more power? This is what I try to explain and maybe google translate doesn't help me at best :D

GriffinIII wrote: Ah so it's a language barrier. Yeah google translate isn't quite working for whatever language you're using. Let me help you create a better opening paragraph then.

"This collection is very stable and I work hard to keep it that way. If you think you've found a bug please leave a bug report or comment and I'll do my best to help you! Please ask for help instead of just a dislike, it helps me improve the collection. My YouTube channel (www.youtube.com/c/vaultboy101mods) has examples of all of my mod collections, thanks for checking it out :)"

Unfortunately you'll never completely solve people not reading the description, but asking for feedback and giving a reason why it will help can only improve the chances.

BTW, the new style is awesome, I really like it! hope it will be possible to edit soon, atm isn't responding

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #117126033.

Spoiler

RedMetalShield wrote:

?To leave a bug report you must be logged in to a Nexus Mods account and have already downloaded the Collection. ?

So if my mods get featured in a collection, I have to download the collection first to add a bug report?
This is not very good in my opinion. From my experience I was able to spot conflicts/bugs in collections which featured my mods right away without downloading the collection, often because other mods in the Collections were heavily incompatible or redundant (which I would argue should count as a "bug"), or had indirect conflicts due to scripts.
I also don't even use Vortex, I use MO2. I don't want to install Vortex and entire collections to report (obvious or already known) bugs or incompatibilities.

Mod authors of mods featured in a collection should be able to report bugs as well without having to download the entire collections first, especially because some Curators tend to never look into their DMs.

We considered this during the design of the feature but there isn't much value in allowing it at the moment.

As you say you've never used the feature you might not be familiar but a Collection can be fairly involved setup, rather than being a simple list of mods. On the surface you might be right about a potential issue, however, the curator may have already catered for that issue using a bundled conflict resolution patch, mod rules, or through binary patching or omitting certain files from the installation. So you can't know for sure that there's a problem unless you actually test it for yourself. I'm sure you'd prefer people play your mod before adding bug reports to your mod page? 

That said, if you refuse to use the feature and/or don't want to download it, you can freely leave a comment in the comments thread or send the curator a PM. Neither of these require you to have used the collection. If they don't see your PM, they probably won't respond to the bug report either but the top curators are always happy to engage with mod authors. As noted in the "What's next?" section, we're currently building a new comments section to replace the current forum-based implementation so these will be part of the page - as they are with mods - in the future. 

On the technical side, it would actually not be trivial to grant this anyway. We'd have to dynamically add/remove special permissions from a collection based on if it currently contains your mod. There are also considerations like "Revision 1 contained my mod, but Revision 2 does not, should I still be able to report without downloading?". If you download the collection we also have some context as to which revision you tried and found a problem with. 

If you're having some specific issue that you'd like to discuss, feel free to drop me a PM - I'm happy to try and poke a specific curator if you can send me the details. :)

You're welcome to suggests this on the new feedback site though and if it gets a lot of votes we'll revisit the decision. 

Edited by Pickysaurus, 01 November 2022 - 06:14 pm.