Most irritating plothole in dawnguard?

[shadowrulah]

I enjoy dawnguard, I like the idea behind it and the features it adds but the story is overwehelmingly awful. It's a barely coherent mess, I totally get that sometimes the story is just a vehicle for cool things to happen but that's not an excuse for just terrible writing.

The absolute most irritating one in my opinion is the fact you don't just kill Serana on the Dawnguard side. Any sort of casual listening in Dimhollow Crypt reveals vampires are looking for something but can't quite get to it. You of course release the thing ,because heroes always do that, and discover it's a vampire with one of the most powerful artifacts in all creation, an elder scroll. Your immediate and only possible response is to take her home and just generally do the vampire's job for them. Forgiving that you eventually realize the sacrifice of a daughter of cold harbor is necessary for the Tyranny of the Sun, killing her ruins harkons plan without any fuss

Do you have any plot holes that really irk you?

 

[LoneWolfEburg]

Well, Serana does give lampshade hanging on it if you threaten to kill her after you release her.

 

A worse, issue, IMO, is the following:

 

If you play the Dawnguard, there isn't any reason for the Dawnguard not to storm the castle immediately, at least after Serana returns to the Dawnguard with the scroll. Yeah, you need Auri-El's bow to kill Harkon, but the Dawnguard doesn't know that.

 

A fairly common writing flaw, that - assuming that the characters, by default, are aware of everything the author aware of.

Edited December 22, 2013 by LoneWolfEburg

[KanesGhost]

I feel the same way about how the story has been done in regards the Serana...it is still beyond me why a Vampire Hunter would not only spare Serana's life, but then also take her home. The Scroll is easier to RP, I just make sure my Dovahkin isn't far enough into the MQ to know what a Scroll looks like on sight)...I can't wrap my head around my Werewolves immediate trust in Serana, taking her home and then convincing the Dawnguard to trust her....Plus her continuing to be set essential if she refuses to cure her Vampirism at the conclusion.

[shadowrulah]

Also, Isran apparently trusts Serana more than you. He knows Falion can cure vampirism and if you become a vampire he refuses to speak to you until you have it cured. He doesn't even mention this as an option for Serana and is totally cool just having her vampire all around his fortress.

[fraquar]

How is the Dawnguard going to storm the castle when there is no Dawnguard yet? It's basically Isran, a couple of slappies and some greenhorn farmboy. In fact, when you return from the castle you can pretty much give them the lay of the land, and that's more than enough for Isran to know he isn't anywhere close to being ready yet - which is why he sends you to get reinforcements. You storm a castle, you better come with superior numbers - not a ragtag bunch.

 

The real "hole" in the story is that there is no initiation rite to join this faction. You just waltz up, he immediately trusts you to the tune of allowing you to take ALL of the forts limited resources as it is. Go ahead, go kill vampires - like you have all this advanced training he has.....

[daventry]

The most irritating is the fact that i went through all that Hell by plowing Falmers to Death that by the time i have the Bow, i forgot to Kill Harkon with it, hence i did it by Normal Means and Fus Roh Dah him to Death.

 

So what exactly was the point of the Plot again.

[TailAbNormal]

Speaking of Dawnguard, lets talk about Harkon. The man is probably the biggest Idiot I've ever seen as an antagonist. It took him thousands of years to find Serana, and he couldn't even find his wife even though she was hiding right under the castle. He keeps around two guys who he knows want to kill him, and when the dragonborn walks in, he just goes ahead and makes him a vampire lord, why!

[AfroGamerNinja]

Speaking of Dawnguard, lets talk about Harkon. The man is probably the biggest Idiot I've ever seen as an antagonist. It took him thousands of years to find Serana, and he couldn't even find his wife even though she was hiding right under the castle. He keeps around two guys who he knows want to kill him, and when the dragonborn walks in, he just goes ahead and makes him a vampire lord, why!

 

At least, you got a free powerup. Unless you enjoy being the real monster.

[ilikecheese1337]

OK, I'm going to go against popular opinion and say that I really like Dawnguard's plot, and I actually think that its main plot is superior to that of the Main Quest and Dragonborn. I also think its "plot holes" are quite defensible.

 

The absolute most irritating one in my opinion is the fact you don't just kill Serana on the Dawnguard side.

 

 

Of course it depends on the character you're playing. A dyed-in-the-wool vampire slayer would have course kill Serana on sight, but then, an ax-crazy psychopath might just murder Delphine for fun, which the Main Quest doesn't let you do. On sane, non-pathologically-vampire-hating characters, there's no real reason to kill Delphine, nor Serana when she's entirely non-threatening towards you. Also, if you kill Serana, you don't learn what the vampires are planning.

 

 

 

If you play the Dawnguard, there isn't any reason for the Dawnguard not to storm the castle immediately, at least after Serana returns to the Dawnguard with the scroll. Yeah, you need Auri-El's bow to kill Harkon, but the Dawnguard doesn't know that.

 

A fairly common writing flaw, that - assuming that the characters, by default, are aware of everything the author aware of.

 

What, with all of four members, no tactical knowledge, and for all they know no reason to do it at all other than a pre-emptive strike? The Dawnguard are sort of extremists, but they're not stupid.

 

 

Also, Isran apparently trusts Serana more than you. He knows Falion can cure vampirism and if you become a vampire he refuses to speak to you until you have it cured. He doesn't even mention this as an option for Serana and is totally cool just having her vampire all around his fortress.

 

He's not cool with it at all, but at the beginning reluctantly accepts Serana's help (and assumes that, since she was always a vampire from his perspective, she won't want a cure) and by the end grudgingly admits that Serana is an exception to the "vampires are evil" rule.

 

 

How is the Dawnguard going to storm the castle when there is no Dawnguard yet? It's basically Isran, a couple of slappies and some greenhorn farmboy. In fact, when you return from the castle you can pretty much give them the lay of the land, and that's more than enough for Isran to know he isn't anywhere close to being ready yet - which is why he sends you to get reinforcements. You storm a castle, you better come with superior numbers - not a ragtag bunch.

 

The real "hole" in the story is that there is no initiation rite to join this faction. You just waltz up, he immediately trusts you to the tune of allowing you to take ALL of the forts limited resources as it is. Go ahead, go kill vampires - like you have all this advanced training he has.....

 

Gameplay constraints, for the same reason that the farms of Whiterun, despite feeding Cyrodiil, are tiny, and there are so few soldiers in the Civil War.

 

 

The most irritating is the fact that i went through all that Hell by plowing Falmers to Death that by the time i have the Bow, i forgot to Kill Harkon with it, hence i did it by Normal Means and Fus Roh Dah him to Death.

 

So what exactly was the point of the Plot again.

 

Because you don't want to kill Harkon and then turn around and find that some uppity vampire or another has found the bow and destroyed the sun. Also, perhaps because Serana isn't exactly willing to go and kill Harkon at first; it takes time for her to realise it.

 

 

Speaking of Dawnguard, lets talk about Harkon. The man is probably the biggest Idiot I've ever seen as an antagonist. It took him thousands of years to find Serana, and he couldn't even find his wife even though she was hiding right under the castle. He keeps around two guys who he knows want to kill him, and when the dragonborn walks in, he just goes ahead and makes him a vampire lord, why!

 

People who sacrifice hundreds of innocent people and hand over their daughters to the Prince of Rape aren't exactly in the prime of mental health.

 

 

 

One plot hole that does get me, though, is why a powerful Dovahkiin, having seen the Volkihars' hall where enslaved people are being eaten, wouldn't just flatten the place there and then. I like to roleplay it as the wards on the castle helping Harkon throw you out, and then using Illusion magic to subtly dissuade you.

Edited December 24, 2013 by ilikecheese1337

[shadowrulah]

OK, I'm going to go against popular opinion and say that I really like Dawnguard's plot, and I actually think that its main plot is superior to that of the Main Quest and Dragonborn. I also think its "plot holes" are quite defensible.

 

The absolute most irritating one in my opinion is the fact you don't just kill Serana on the Dawnguard side.

 

 

Of course it depends on the character you're playing. A dyed-in-the-wool vampire slayer would have course kill Serana on sight, but then, an ax-crazy psychopath might just murder Delphine for fun, which the Main Quest doesn't let you do. On sane, non-pathologically-vampire-hating characters, there's no real reason to kill Delphine, nor Serana when she's entirely non-threatening towards you. Also, if you kill Serana, you don't learn what the vampires are planning.

 

 

Also, Isran apparently trusts Serana more than you. He knows Falion can cure vampirism and if you become a vampire he refuses to speak to you until you have it cured. He doesn't even mention this as an option for Serana and is totally cool just having her vampire all around his fortress.

 

He's not cool with it at all, but at the beginning reluctantly accepts Serana's help (and assumes that, since she was always a vampire from his perspective, she won't want a cure) and by the end grudgingly admits that Serana is an exception to the "vampires are evil" rule.

 

 

Serana is a vampire being sought out by the vampires you're investigating and in posession of an elder scroll. She tells you nothing about herself other than she wants you to take her somewhere. She exudes suspiciousness. Even if she wasn't a vampire and didn't acknowledge she had an elder scroll just implicitly trusting people like that is ridiculous. Even if you aren't as kill happy as I am the intelligent move is to take her to Isran, and if she complains that she doesn't feel comfortable when you get there inform her it's not really optional. After you've gathered some information and discovered her blood is the secret to destroying the world killing her is easier and more effective than going through the entire plot.

 

His objections last a brief conversation, even if she's absolutely necessary to the plot he doesn't order her put under guard or locked up he just sort of gruffly pays lip service to "I hate vampires" before. He also doesn't point out that killing her is the best possible course of action even if it's just for your paragon hero to say "no it shall not be."