12 replies to this topic

[Retsam]

I modded back in FO3, but it was always stuff for myself. I was never confident enough to post anything.
Almost 15 years later and I finally get around to playing FO4. Yea, it is what it is.
Anyway, after playing all of 2 days I decided I wanted a piece that was not in the game.
I wanted a Horizontal Concrete Beam. I had seen vertical ones in-game so I figured it would be easy.
Nope.
BTW, I'm a programmer by day, but have no 3D modeling resources.
I'm using NifSkope 2.0 Dev 8.
Playing FO4 vanilla with DLCs and minimum mods.

The issue I am having is what I assume would be the collision mesh. I'm not certain because I can't see those meshes in NifSkope,
and it's a bit out of my knowledge base to even know if I am on the correct track.

The symptom is although the floor piece will snap in place, AI won't walk on it and my toon sinks a little into it.
I have spent days scouring my nif and comparing it to unpacked files from the game and it looks right.
Again, I am assuming something broke in a mesh I do not know how to view/fix.

The original nif I had seen was \Data\Meshes\DLC02\SetDressing\Workshop\ConcreteWallsWorkshopConcreteWall03.nif
That is the vertical one. I want a horizontal one. And the length has to be adjusted to match the walls.
In full disclosure when I was trying to figure out how to change the length without a 3D app,
I did find a mod on Nexus that had that piece, horizontal and longer just like I wanted.
But that one is not correct either, some messy stuff in the nif and did not work as-is as a floor piece.
It works as a wall piece, but not a floor (AI won't use it).
So I took that nif since it was the correct size and started cleaning up the blocks/nodes/connectionpoints/etc. in NifSkope.
And I am stuck. Everything in NifSkope looks correct (to me at least), but it's no good as a floor.

Is there anyone willing to take the nif I have edited and take a quick look in a 3D app to see if the mesh is messed up?
Is that even possible since it is not the original model?

 

I'm not allowed to upload the nif so I would also need input on how to share it.

TIA

[Fantafaust]

What's the mod, and in the CK, what's the wall piece's editor ID? Feel free to send me your version in a DM, btw

[Retsam]

In Creation Kit, the form ID of the original vanilla piece is 0100093C, 'WorkshopConcreteWall03'.

The mod I found the piece I am using is from 'Concrete Walls with Window Glass'; nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/18360

In that mod the name of the piece that I started with is 'ConcreteWall_beam.nif'. I'm not using the mod so I don't have a Form Id for it.

I did not post the mod name the first time because I did not want to offended the modder with my statement, 'It's messy'.

But, even though I have only been learning NifSkope for a few days and have no 3D skills, as a programmer looking at

the nif I see empty strings, duplicated and unused objects (connectionpoints), and in general it does not look 'sanitized'.

 

After posting I kept messing with it and realized the source of my problem, but not how to fix it.

That original piece from the mod, when I load it in NifSkope one of the things that I felt was wrong was what I call the ground plane.

I'm not sure if that is correct name, but I am referring to the grid that shows up. Every vanilla floor piece I looked at has that grid at the top of the model.

In the mod, the grid goes through an arbitrary point of the model near the center. I learned how to use transform to move stuff, so I moved the model on the Z axis

so the top of the model is inline with the grid, like the other floor pieces.

I did Apply transform, and checked every object's values and adjusted everything as required.

What I realized is in the game my toon can walk on the piece I changed, but the feet are sunk down in the piece. I realized that height difference is the difference I changed in the Z value.

 

So the conclusion is when I changed the Z value, apparently there is a (collision?) mesh I can not see, thus can't change it, and that is what I broke.

That ground plane, as I call it, is still in the wrong place near the center of the model and that is what my toon is walking on instead of the top of the model (floor).

I think I will start over. I'll take another copy of the model from the mod, and clean it up but this time leave the transform (Z axis) alone and see what happens.

 

Is there a way I can see that invisible collision mesh? I've watched videos of folks making items and for them the collision shows up in NifSkope, but I've not seen the same

for stuff like floors. Not a single vanilla piece I have looked at in NifSkope is showing the red collision mesh so I was assuming things are done differently for stuff like floors.

 

I will still DM you my files because if you are willing I would appreciate feedback on my nif edits. I want to make sure I am doing things correctly (other than breaking the mesh lol)

because I have another little personal mod I made also, again just a single static piece. I had to use a vanilla piece for the model since I can't make one, so it does not look exactly like I want

but I made the mod itself into something that apparently no one else ever made, at least I could not find one. Other then the appearance not being what I want, that one works in my game.

I know the game is out-of-date now, but I still want to play it and for me making the mods is a big part of the experience.

 

Thanks for responding.

[Fantafaust]

As far as seeing the havok collision in Nifkskope, you pretty much can't, and we can't edit it either, only copy and paste it from one nif to another or move it via transforms blindly. But it should be in line with the original position of the wall. So if you edit just the wall into the position you want, you'll end up floating if you moved the wall down and sinking if you moved it up. The better way would be to move the connection points(which is what I assume you meant by grid) so that only they get moved and are in the position that you want.

I'm also primarily a coder, but simple nif edits are within my wheelhouse, so yes, do feel free to send them to me after making your new edits and I'll double check that everything is alright.

[pepperman35]

In CK, you can hit F4 in viewport and check how the collision mesh looks on vanilla assets.   

 

You can put the nif file in a rar or zip file and you can upload the zip here.

 

3d apps likely won't import the collision mesh.  Probably just easier to rebuild it.

Edited by pepperman35, 16 May 2023 - 06:57 pm.

[greekrage]

did you navmesh the object ?

Npc wont use a surface that isnt navmeshed even if it has proper collision.....

This is done in the creation kit...  (right click the object in the object window and you should see the navmesh option . Once that is selected it will open a navmesh cell with the object in it awaiting to be navmeshed  and finalized )

There are many tutorials of this on youtube.....

Here is a easy to follow method...  https://www.youtube....7IRHJCw&t=2122s

[Retsam]

In CK, you can hit F4 in viewport and check how the collision mesh looks on vanilla assets.   

 

You can put the nif file in a rar or zip file and you can upload the zip here.

 

3d apps likely won't import the collision mesh.  Probably just easier to rebuild it.

 

Great tip pepperman35. As soon as I viewed with F4 it was obvious my guess was correct. I can see the collision object does not match the model. Wrong size and placement.

 

did you navmesh the object ?

Npc wont use a surface that isnt navmeshed even if it has proper collision.....

This is done in the creation kit...  (right click the object in the object window and you should see the navmesh option . Once that is selected it will open a navmesh cell with the object in it awaiting to be navmeshed  and finalized )

There are many tutorials of this on youtube.....

Here is a easy to follow method...  https://www.youtube....7IRHJCw&t=2122s

No, I did not know about that navmesh feature greekrage. I watched the video, thanks. I did experiment a little with it, but the navmesh apparently snaps to the collision object, and the collision is incorrect.

So basically I am back at square one with the collision object not being correct and I do not know how to fix it.

 

I was refraining from posting the file because I wanted to figure this out on my own, but I don't think I can since fixing it probably requires modeling software and knowledge.

At this point I have made dozens of unsuccessful attempts so FWI I'll post a zip with the game's original, the one I found in a mod, and one of mine.

My files are prefixed with 'sag_'.

 

Thanks everyone for the input. I learned a couple of things I did not know... Or maybe I did know and in the >10 years I have been away from games and mods I have forgotten ;P

 

 Beams.zip   25.93KB   1 downloads

[pepperman35]

See if this works for you, it should have a proper collision.

Attached Files

•  sag_ConcreteFloorBeam01.rar   6.05KB   4 downloads

[Retsam]

See if this works for you, it should have a proper collision.

Awesome! I tried it first without messing with the mesh and it worked right out-of-the-box. And you did that so fast...

I am both jealous and very happy. I really wanted this piece lol. The setters were not pathing correctly in my building without this.

It is probably beyond me, but what software did you use?

There is a second similar piece I want but it would have to be done from scratch so its not something I could ask someone to do quick like you just did with this file.

If it is software that is not crazy expensive I might try.

 

I still kinda want to post my mod, as insignificant as it is. I don't really care if no one uses it, I just want to have something posted.

It still bums me out all the cool stuff I made so many years ago is now long gone since I never uploaded anything.

I need to go review how to properly package this for uploading, and of course I'll give proper credit to pepperman35 for the model tweaking.

I guess it would be proper to also try and contact that original mod owner since I used his nif as the starting point.

 

Thanks again everyone for the assistance!

[pepperman35]

Boxes and rectangles are relatively easy.  Glad you got it sorted.

 

How complicated is the second piece?  Details ....