Qu9ke Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Before you say anything, I know this kind of thing has been discussed to hell and back, but I haven't really seen yet someone argue what I am about to argue in favor for siding with Stormcloaks as a Dunmer. For the sake of nothing but good fun, I want to share my justification with you all for possibly siding with them as that race. Keep in mind that all of this is purely for roleplaying purposes. As a Dunmer, I will be playing as a vampire nightblade which is basically a mage assassin. He will also be leaning towards the evil side and will be intellectual and tactical, skills needed to be an effective assassin. Being familiar with much of Tamriel's history and the current happenings, he would be knowledgable of each side's stance in the war and how those sides affect eachother. Being the closet Mer supremacist that he is, he by default favors his own kind. He just doesn't show it as much to spare feelings and unnecessary conflict, albeit a trivial thing to do in his eyes. Knowing very well Thalmor's hopes of using the Stormcloaks to drive out the Empire (reference the dossier about Ulfric Stormcloak), he would more than happily guise as an ally of Ulfric's, constantly tolerating numerous racist remarks of course. This decision would also be driven by the fact he is sympathetic for the poor state the Dunmer are in in Windhelm as well as his grudge against the Imperials for wrongly attempting to executing him. While he would much prefer the land to be taken over by only Dunmer, he would much rather have all Mer's than any man. This goes without saying that even if it means the snob Altmer take over, although my character wouldn't be on good terms with them. Well.. There you have it. This post serves absolutely nothing other than to have a good ol' conversation :P. What do you guys think? Does it seem justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgiegril Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Although a Dunmer might find reason to join the stormcloaks, it is not likely he would be allowed to. If somehow he were given entry, I think racist remarks would be the least of the attacks from his "comrades." Best case scenario, he is sent out on a suicide mission in order to avoid the loss of a True Nord for the task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qu9ke Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Although a Dunmer might find reason to join the stormcloaks, it is not likely he would be allowed to. If somehow he were given entry, I think racist remarks would be the least of the attacks from his "comrades." Best case scenario, he is sent out on a suicide mission in order to avoid the loss of a True Nord for the task.Hmm. You do have a good point. Perhaps my character could join the Imperials to spite the Stormcloaks rejecting him or trying to kill him off in a hypothetical roleplaying sense. I could just say that against all odds and with his badassery, he was able to pass Ulfric's tests, but that might be too convenient. Respect isn't something my character seeks from the Stormcloaks anyways. He likes to look at the bigger picture. This is something I'll have to think more about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 There are Dunmer travelers in Skyrim, some of them claim they're joining the Stormcloaks and others claim they they're joining the Empire. So there is certainly a precedent for joining the Stormcloaks as a Dunmer. Whether a Dunmer would actually believe in Mer supremacy is another matter. The Dunmer are far removed from their Bosmer and Altmer kin, and given their history with the Daedra it's quite likely the Aldmeri Dominion would kill them when possible. Remember the Altmer are very concerned with the "pedigree" of their people, much like the Nazi's aspired to create an Aryan master race. They would see the Dunmer as mongrels at best, or abominations at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettM Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 @OP: You've misinterpreted Ulfric's dossier. The last thing the Thalmor want is for either side to win, so they do not want Skyrim to drive out the Empire as you suggest. Nor do they want the Empire to crush the Stormcloaks. They want to maintain a balance of power that keeps bleeding the resources of both sides until both are so weakened that they become pushovers for the Dominion. A quick victory for the Stormcloaks is as undesired as a quick victory for the Empire, since either outcome will make it harder for the Dominion to conquer the remaining provinces. The Thalmor are not Mer supremacists but, rather, Altmer supremacists. The Bosmer are a subjugated population despite being Mer, and I don't think the Dunmer could expect any better treatment. Furthermore, there are some enormous religious differences between the Dunmer and other Mer, meaning that the Thalmor would likely impose religious suppression on them that would make the suppression of Talos worship look like rainbows and unicorns in comparison. A Dunmer would have to be an utter fool to support the Dominion. I believe a smart Dunmer would support whichever side he believes would make the best bulwark between the Thalmor and a severely-weakened Morrowind. This approach could be used to justify involving a Dunmer character with either side whether he likes them or not. The enemy of my enemy may not be a friend, but may delay my enemy long enough to allow me to better prepare my own defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskolnikova Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I always found it weird that the Stormcloaks would try and recruit my Dunmer character. I followed Ralof out of Helgen because he was the only one I could keep up with, and the whole time he's like "Is that a Dunmer wizard I see? Take some armour off of my dead comrades! Come join the Stormcloaks! Sleep in my sister's house! Take our jewels! I love you!" I've decided that there are two possibilities here. Either most Stormcloaks aren't as bigoted as some of their leaders (case in point: Riften, arguably the most cosmopolitan and accepting city in Skyrim, and a Stormcloak stronghold) or Bethesda got lazy. Since my first character was a Stormcloak, I like to entertain the former, but I'm not sure. There is evidence of non-Nord peoples joining the Stormcloaks (case in point: the one Redguard who runs past you on the country roads and announces that he's about to join the Stormcloaks), maybe due to some situation of their own. So, if some Dunmer were raised as to see the good side of the Stormcloaks, perhaps they would join, but they'd certainly be a pariah among their people, and probably look rather stupid even to their comrades. I doubt the honeymoon would last long. Edited March 31, 2014 by raskolnikova Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I always found it weird that the Stormcloaks would try and recruit my Dunmer character. I followed Ralof out of Helgen because he was the only one I could keep up with, and the whole time he's like "Is that a Dunmer wizard I see? Take some armour off of my dead comrades! Come join the Stormcloaks! Sleep in my sister's house! Take our jewels! I love you!" Well, he sees you as an ally from the beginning purely because the Imperial legion was going to do the same thing to you, as him, Ulfric and everyone else in those carts - you can tell he knew it from the moment you woke up. So when you are "saved" from the axe, and catch up to him, he sees that you are still a potential friend of the cause - Imperial hatred for the attempted execution, and running from the scene - so he calls on you and helps you get on your feet so that his side of the war has a willing and able (and friendly) face to add to their ranks. The Stormcloaks are willing to take any soul that walks up to them and says "I will fight for you!" You've heard the questions Ulfric and Galmar ask you when you try to sign up - they probably ask everyone those same questions and set them a challenge to prove it (the serpent stone task). No army is going to turn away an able-bodied and willing warrior without good reason, and in the Dragonborn's case (no matter the race/gender) they don't have one to justify turning you away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskolnikova Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 I always found it weird that the Stormcloaks would try and recruit my Dunmer character. I followed Ralof out of Helgen because he was the only one I could keep up with, and the whole time he's like "Is that a Dunmer wizard I see? Take some armour off of my dead comrades! Come join the Stormcloaks! Sleep in my sister's house! Take our jewels! I love you!" Well, he sees you as an ally from the beginning purely because the Imperial legion was going to do the same thing to you, as him, Ulfric and everyone else in those carts - you can tell he knew it from the moment you woke up. So when you are "saved" from the axe, and catch up to him, he sees that you are still a potential friend of the cause - Imperial hatred for the attempted execution, and running from the scene - so he calls on you and helps you get on your feet so that his side of the war has a willing and able (and friendly) face to add to their ranks. The Stormcloaks are willing to take any soul that walks up to them and says "I will fight for you!" You've heard the questions Ulfric and Galmar ask you when you try to sign up - they probably ask everyone those same questions and set them a challenge to prove it (the serpent stone task). No army is going to turn away an able-bodied and willing warrior without good reason, and in the Dragonborn's case (no matter the race/gender) they don't have one to justify turning you away. That's a given, but Ralof seems to be generous beyond common courtesy; he could easily throw some coin at you and hole you up at the inn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVampireDante Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 Comrade in arms - literally in a life or death situation, so perhaps he sees you more than just a fellow Helgen survivor - you've been through it with him, the journey there, the execution, the dragon attack right down to the escape where you probably saved his life a few times in the dungeons below the keep. You've become a friend and a lifesaver in that short a time, so maybe he thinks he owes you something more than a few friendly gestures. You also don't know what happened when you got caught, you might have saved him from getting killed at the ambush for all you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolfEburg Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) The degree of Stormcloak bigotry against other races is a controversial topic in fandom, mostly because Bethesda itself had been pretty vague, so people fill stuff with their headcanon. Ralof is definitely supposed to be accepting of everyone, though. And yeah, the Thalmor don't want anyone to win. Edited April 11, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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