Jump to content

[Request] Fists of Steel fix to match description


Archmortal

Recommended Posts

Okay so, I looked through the searches, and through a lot of the related mod files on the nexus, but the only solutions everyone seems to have come up with are a little bloated and at times extremly script-heavy like with complete overhauls to unarmed as a whole. None of them really tackle the actual problem with the perk itself, which is that it only accounts for base armor value of the gauntlets and ignores what the value should be at after factoring in your armor skill, Juggernaut, Well Fitted, and Matching Set.

What I'm looking for is just a fix to allow Fists of Steel to use the armor value that a given set of gauntlets has when equipped by your character, including increases from things like smithing and the Juggernaut, Well Fitted and Matching Set perks. Out of fairness I guess an ideal mod would add an equivalent perk to the Light Armor tree, but with none of the extra bonuses that other mods tend to give, as accounting for smithing and existing perk bonuses would make anything extra redundant.

 

I can't seem to find a single mod related to Unarmed combat that makes this fix so the perk matches its description. The closest I could find is "Fists of Steel Expanded" which multiplies the base-armor value used by the vanilla Fists of Steel perk up to five times, but even that's just a stopgap that pales in comparison to smithing weapons, enchanting them, or spell mods. I couldn't find any discussion about what might make it difficult to mod the perk to account for the actual armor value while the gauntlets are equipped. There's also the issue where the perk and most mods made to change it don't interact with mod-made armor.

If anyone feels up to making a mod like this, I would appreciate it. Or if anyone has insight as to why it doesn't seem like anyone has made such a fix instead of doing things like creating entirely new perks and scripts around it, I would love to know about that too. I've found several requests for pretty much exactly what I'm describing going back to near the game's release, but no one seems to have created a matching mod, nor discussed why if there's more reason than just not wanting to. The only mods I can find are stopgaps or complete overhauls to unarmed, nothing that actually fixes the perk so it matches the description.

If such a mod already exists and I just haven't been able to find it, I'd also love to get a link to that too.

Edited by Archmortal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the fix would be change the description to "unarmed attacks while wearing heavy armor gauntlets do bonus damage based on metal type" because that's what it does.

 

Jokes... But I think it could be done if a script could be made to get current armor value with only the gauntlets equipped, and plug the number into unarmed damage. I don't know what can be done with scripting though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You would have to unequip all of the player's armor except for the gauntlets everytime the player equipped or unequipped an item with the fistsofsteel keyword. Then you could use one of the new SKSE functions to set the magnitude of an ability and apply the ability to the player. You would have to repeat the process everytime a game is loaded because spells do not remember the magnitude of effects set by script between sessions. It might even cause the AV in question to get skewed as a result. I'm not sure. That would require testing. It all seems very complicated, and for what really? It would be better to change the description in my opinion.

 

Honestly, capturing the effects of perks, potions, enchantments, and skill level is relatively easy. The only part of this that really can't be done with a hidden perk and a simple script is tempering enhancement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You would have to unequip all of the player's armor except for the gauntlets everytime the player equipped or unequipped an item with the fistsofsteel keyword. Then you could use one of the new SKSE functions to set the magnitude of an ability and apply the ability to the player. You would have to repeat the process everytime a game is loaded because spells do not remember the magnitude of effects set by script between sessions. It might even cause the AV in question to get skewed as a result. I'm not sure. That would require testing. It all seems very complicated, and for what really? It would be better to change the description in my opinion.

 

Honestly, capturing the effects of perks, potions, enchantments, and skill level is relatively easy. The only part of this that really can't be done with a hidden perk and a simple script is tempering enhancement.

 

Fair enough, that does explain why it hasn't been done already. Wish I could've found details like that sooner. Thanks for the explanation. c:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question is what SHOULD Fists of Steel do? You're obviously not happy with the vanilla implementation, and neither am I. You're also not happy with any of the current fixes. So since getting it exactly as the description says isn't really feasible, what would make aj acceptable substitute? I'm interested in this because I don't like the vanilla implementation either and I am currently trying to figure out how to implement this for my own perk overhaul mod.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you make it, I would suggest just adding a level or two to the perk. That will let it stay up to date with your game progession, without being too complicated. Maybe like, if level 1 is +10 unarmed damage, level 2 could be +15, level 3 +20. Something like that.

 

I've been considering doing a minor overhaul like this, just building upon vanilla perks to keep them useful as you progress. I need to check other perk overhauls though, may have been done

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question is what SHOULD Fists of Steel do? You're obviously not happy with the vanilla implementation, and neither am I. You're also not happy with any of the current fixes. So since getting it exactly as the description says isn't really feasible, what would make aj acceptable substitute? I'm interested in this because I don't like the vanilla implementation either and I am currently trying to figure out how to implement this for my own perk overhaul mod.

The Fists of Steel Expanded mod has a nice idea, I think. It's the closest I've seen to accounting for smithing differences, by taking the base value and multiplying it with each point of investment up to 5. But iirc the mod has an issue where it doesn't apply to mod-made equipment without going in and manually adjusting it

 

Since you said the biggest issue is capturing tempering enhancements, would it prove feasible to pick up on the base value as increased by your skill in Heavy Armor and Juggernaut, etc and apply the same idea as Fists of Steel Expanded to account for lack of tempering involvement (although probably only double the value, 3-5x would be excessive at that point)? Picking up on that value alone would solve most of the issue, and implementing additional point investment into the perk to double it would already be far and away more organic and in line with other weapon power curves than any of the other solutions I've found.

 

Checking in-game with the Unofficial Patch installed, no tempering, maxed out Heavy Armor skill/perks and a full suit of the same set, the gauntlet armor values come out like:

69 for Ebony

72 for Dragonplate

78 for Daedric

 

that would be the additional unarmed damage from 1 point in the perk with everything maxed. Add the value again with a second point at let's say 80 skill requirement the way Fists of Steel Expanded does to the base value. With two point investment, 22 from being a Khajit and 14 on a ring and gauntlets each with a full suit of Daedric, it comes out to 206. That seems perfectly acceptable as a vanilla-equipment peak to unarmed damage.

 

So long as it picks up on the equipped value as adjusted by skill/perks, then even without tempering it should create a smooth power curve throughout most of the game (early Unarmed would still be the bees knees for a Khajit anyway) and allow unarmed to stay competitive into level 60+ against tempered/enchanted weapons.

Edited by Archmortal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, capturing the effects of perks and skill is (relatively) simple. It's changes acquired during gameplay, like tempering, that is impossible without elaborate workarounds.

 

Unfortunately it's the nature of fists of steel as it is currently implemented that it will only work with vanilla armors or armors that use vanilla keywords. To make it work with custom armors go either need to rewrite the perk from the ground up or the custom armor modder has to implement their own version of the perk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, capturing the effects of perks and skill is (relatively) simple. It's changes acquired during gameplay, like tempering, that is impossible without elaborate workarounds.

 

Unfortunately it's the nature of fists of steel as it is currently implemented that it will only work with vanilla armors or armors that use vanilla keywords. To make it work with custom armors go either need to rewrite the perk from the ground up or the custom armor modder has to implement their own version of the perk.

 

Lol dang, that explains even more about why people don't like directly messing with the perk. Still, just getting it to work like in my last post would be a massive improvement, and imo more satisfying than the other available mods. So hey, if you do end up trying that out with your own overhaul lemme know. Having the changes for this specific perk as standalone would be ideal for me, but I'm always willing to try out new perspectives on perks in general.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...