245 replies to this topic

[Lachdonin]

Not sure if that's a serious question or if you're just making fun of the Thalmor :tongue:

 

Kinda both. Within the context of the universe, they're not really doing anything that wrong... Tiber Septim tried to suppress 3 religions and had entire families murdered just to shore up his own legitimacy... The Mer were legitimately cheated of the Ehlnofex heritage by Lorkhan and his Wanderers/Men. Talos also used the single most horrible weapon ever created against the Altmer, annihilating entire timelines. Tiber Septim condemned the defenders in the Siege of Alinor to an eternity of war, death and suffering. In contrast, the Thalmor want to end death its self. 

 

Its a complicated thing... I understand where they're coming from, based on the knowledge they have. In a similar situation, i may approve. Of course, i happen to know that there is a purpose to mortal suffering, and that it is a test to overcome and achieve a greater state of being than any Et'ada could ever hope to. 

 

Still, the Thalmor are surprisingly tame compared to Tiber Septim. 

[Valkasha]

Well Tiber Septim had dragonblood so conquering was in his blood.

[calfurius]

Here's the thing here. IF the Thalmor win everybody but them loses. Tiber Septim may have been a conqueror, but he wasn't trying to commit genocide against all non-humans. If the Thalmor unmake time, they are essentially "killing" people. Their just doing it a weird fashion. It's almost the same as going back in time to kill your grandfather to stop you from existing.

[Lachdonin]

But then you're only killing your grandfather. What the Thalmor want to do is way, way bigger. If they win, no one ever died. ever. Death wouldn't even exist. The very concept of mortality would be removed from the Aubris. Can you be responsible for killing, when death doesn't exist?

[Rvanbergen]

You can if you see death as "removing life", which is basically what death is. If the Thalmor unmake creation, they're robbing everyone in existence of a future; more than that, they're robbing them of a past. In some way, that's even worse than simply killing them.

Sure, there'd be nobody left to know it but them, nobody left to blame them, but there's more to responsibility than just being able to be blamed for something.

[notmyhome]

To make it worse, we don't actually have any sort of in-Universe proof that these events (tricking of the Elonfex etc) actually happened. That means, the Thalmor try to un-make the world on the base of ancient rumors and prophecies.Not solid enough for me.

[Valkasha]

Tbh I think trying to alter the past or meddling with time in general is a worse crime than murdering someone.

[Lachdonin]

To make it worse, we don't actually have any sort of in-Universe proof that these events (tricking of the Elonfex etc) actually happened. That means, the Thalmor try to un-make the world on the base of ancient rumors and prophecies.Not solid enough for me.

Well, we do have a good deal of sources. The Princes have stated as such, the degredadtion of the Et'ada and their panicked attempt to escape is good evidence. The Hist have indicated Lorkhans treachery, and we know the Altmer had records of the Ehlnofex wars and of Lorkhan's trial.

You can if you see death as "removing life", which is basically what death is. If the Thalmor unmake creation, they're robbing everyone in existence of a future; more than that, they're robbing them of a past. In some way, that's even worse than simply killing them.
Sure, there'd be nobody left to know it but them, nobody left to blame them, but there's more to responsibility than just being able to be blamed for something.

That's not how life works in TES though. The Et'Ada lived before death existed. They were eternal, unending and unlimited. Lorkhan created death with Mundus. Death is the end of life, not the removal of it. The Thalmor want there to ONLY be life.

[Valkasha]

I think the Thalmor should stop using the potion supply of their Kha'Jit allies.

[Rvanbergen]

Well, maybe it would work like that for them. But even if that meant unending life for everyone (one of my personal nightmares, actually), it would also mean that nobody would really be "living". Without the world around anymore, there'd just be a whole lot of emptiness. Maybe the Thalmor think of that as a better existence, but there must be plenty of people who'd consider that a nightmare. Which makes the Thalmor incredibly selfish, if nothing else.