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I'm beginning to find it harder to hate the Thalmor...

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#21
Valkasha

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Personally I believe the huge ammount of inbreeding the altmer have done in order to keep their appearance as f***ed up as it is today is the reason they hold such f***ed up ideas of the world and gods. Their superiority complex is a ruse to hide the fact they've all got downs syndrome.



#22
Lachdonin

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Well, maybe it would work like that for them. But even if that meant unending life for everyone (one of my personal nightmares, actually), it would also mean that nobody would really be "living". Without the world around anymore, there'd just be a whole lot of emptiness. Maybe the Thalmor think of that as a better existence, but there must be plenty of people who'd consider that a nightmare. Which makes the Thalmor incredibly selfish, if nothing else.


Again, that's more of a 'our world ' comparison. We know that there was existance before the creation of mundus, and he Aubris was a paradise of near limitless potential. Even the weakest of the Et'ada were capable of making their own little worlds, shaped by their own nature and desires. Mundus forced them to become locked in someone else's world.

#23
Rvanbergen

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Well, as already pointed out before, how can we know if that's the truth? Because the Elves say so? They'll say anything to excuse feeling superior to other races. As far as we know, existence may have well been nothing but a big soup of possibilities before Mundas was created.

And besides, as far as I know, wasn't the main point of Elven religion was that only the Mer races came from there? Men and the Beast Races were born on Mundas, and would disappear when it was destroyed. So, again, selfish at least, and likely genocidal as well.

Though I admit that I may be wrong on that part.



#24
Lachdonin

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We are somewhat wweighed by vague references and difficult interpretations, yes, but most information actually comes from the Imperial Moth Priests and their investigations of the Elder Scrolls. There are also some statements from Daedra, mythologies from various cultures and a touch of information from the divines. It's true that we don't k.is the exact events, but we do know the sequence.

It's worth noting too that most Elven myths do not say the Gods created man, but rather that a faction of Ehlnofey became man. Undoing the creation of Mundus would reunite both the Aldmer and the Wanderers into the primordial Ehlnofey, merging man and mer (and the derived beastmen, like the Khajiit, who used to be Elves).

Their end game reases pain, suffering and death entirely, reunited man and mer and bring harmony to the Aubris.

Or, it is intended to. They are missing a few key components which have fundimentally altered reality and prevent it from being reset. But there are only 2 beings in the Elder Scrolls universe that know about those...

#25
Kestrellius

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Wait what? What components? The use of the Numidium? (Sorry. My knowledge of TES lore is...limited. Speaking of which, what exactly does the Numidium do, anyway? A glorified giant robot wouldn't be capable of destroying empires if that was all it was.)

 

Anyway, isn't it fairly likely that the Thalmor don't actually have any idea what they're doing, and would just wind up killing everyone, regardless of their intentions? Oh and concerning the Psijics...I got the impression that they're basically the anti-Thalmor. That they're fully aware of what Ancano was trying to do, and are working behind the scenes to stop it.

 

And, yeah. Obviously, they're power-hungry and such, and their methods are cruel. It's just...I almost can't help liking them in spite of it, because of their impeccable sense of style and their ultimate goals.

 

Oh, also. I'm reasonably sure the Thalmor are quite aware that Talos is a god. At least, the ones at the top. They're just trying to undermine him.



#26
Lachdonin

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I highly doubt Ancano is part of the inner circle that knows the whole plan. Very, very few Altmer would be, because success means the 'end' of their existence as much as everyone else's. 

 

As for what they're missing... There is the Numidium, yes. It's creation changed the music of the Aubris and fundamentally altered the interaction between Anu and Padomay. It can't be undone. As for what it is... It's a God-Machine constructed of Tonal Architecture that exists in all time and space simultaneously. There was a question on /r/AskScienceFiction about how big it was, and the most appropriate answer is "All of them". It defies the laws of time and space, which is what makes it so powerful. It doesn't just attack a cities walls, it erases the stone they were made of thousands of years before it was ever quarried. 

 

There's also Talos. The Thalmor believe he is a god just like the Aedra. And yes, the Thalmor know full well Talos is a god. They also understand that belief and worship shape and empower the Aedra, and they think that starving Talos of the same interaction will cause him to fade away. They want to do so because Talos, in his killing of Wulfhearth Ash-King, mimicked the moment time began (the Convention and the Enantiomorph) and as such acts as something of a second lock on the whole thing. They need to get rid of him in order to destroy the Ur Stone of the Adamantium Tower. Problem is, Talos is CHIM. He exists outside the Aubris and is totally unassailable by anyone but himself. Not even Vivec can destroy him, because they are equals. This of course may explain why the Thalmor destroy the world, but not reset everything, in the Landfall storyline. 

 

There is also the Void Ghost, the remnants of Lorkhan's murder, from which has spawned several new entities, including Sheogorath and Hermaeus Mora. These exist outside of Mundus, and as such are not subject to the happenings on inside Mundus. If time were reset, they would still exist, upsetting the balance. 

 

In their minds, they are doing what they think is necessary to save EVERYONE from the horrible torture that is mortality. But they're missing some key parts to the puzzle...



#27
Rvanbergen

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Okay... I can see the logic behind that... I think...

Just one thing. I don't remember it ever being confirmed that that actually is the Thalmor's end goal. As far as I know, it's just a rumor that they're trying to unmake reality. They could just be power-crazed nutters for all we know. Is there any actual proof that that's what the Thalmor want?



#28
notmyhome

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Plenty of stuff has been confirmed by developers and/or Kirkbride. Not sure if the Thalmor's goals were among them, but other facts were, like CHIM or previous Kelpas.



#29
Kestrellius

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Oh, okay. So the Numdium is a TARDIS. That makes sense, what with Septimus's bigger-on-the-inside lockbox and all.

 

Wait so...shouldn't the Thalmor just be working on taking control of Numidium, and using it to erase everything? Wouldn't that be easier than their current plan?

 

As for Ancano, if he wasn't aware of the Thalmor endgame, then what was he trying to do with the Eye? I mean, he specifically mentioned "the power to unmake the world", so...

 

And...certain Daedra were created by Lorkhan's death? ...how? I thought the Daedra were just the et'Ada who didn't participate in creation. And how could it have created Sheogorath, when Sheogorath didn't really exist until after the Oblivion Crisis?



#30
Lachdonin

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ok... Numidium... 

 

Considering Kirkbride's Landfall storyarc, i think that they have several contingencies. They seem to fail in their 'Destroy humanity' and go with plan B, which involves the Numidium. 

 

Ancano's "unmake the world" rant is something of a typical evil villain with too much power thing. However, it's a common theme within Altmeri society to desire the Dawn and to view the creation of Mundus as a curse, so even if he didn't know the plan, he'd probably still want the same end result. There's also a vien of thought that 'Unmaking the world' is the promise that caused the Altmer to support the Thalmor following the Oblivion Crisis. 

 

As for the Daedra... Hermaeus Mora was formed of 'The castoffs of Mundus'. Being the embodiment of secrets, presumably secrets didn't exist before the formation of Mundus, creating a new sphere of influence and Hermaeus Mora with it. Then there's Meridia, who was a Magne'Ge, and is... technically... and Aedra...Malacath is Trinimac, so also an Aedra. Mehrunes Dagon was created by Alduin after Mundus.

 

Sheogorath is a weird situation though. We're not exactly sure how to reconcile the curse and his other origin story. Th best explanation i've heard is that the other Princes threw him through the 'Eye of the Void Ghost', inflicting him with madness, creating Sheogorath, but having both Sheogorath and Jyggalag occupying the same 'body'. Only one could be active at a time, however, until the CoC willingly stepped through the Eye of the Void Ghost, taking on the nature of Madness and dividing both between two forms. 







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