The BSA Project

[dharh]

Who in the world said BAIN is not modular? That does not make sense. That is the whole point of BAIN packages. It is way easier to modify a install configurations with BAIN. Instead of uninstalling and reinstalling the entire mod with a few changes, you can just anneal a package in BAIN and it will only modify the necessary files. ...talk about misinformation...

 

BAIN Mod Installation Projects - http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ <-- want to see BAIN modular?

 

 

Edit: What Psymon has done there is right up your alley, if my reading comprehension has not plummeted...

Eh, what I meant is that it doesn't have scripting, so there's no popups to make a choice on what modules to install and what not to install. It's still essentially extracting an archive right into the data directory, with the caveat that you do indeed have BAIN redirections. I like that a complex BAIN package lets you explicitly define the order of install and sub-packages inside a single package. But its still only doing what I was doing before with multiple archives named such that I knew what order to install and uninstall. It just needs to go that one extra step, which you've already said they are working on.

[Tomlong54210]

Who in the world said BAIN is not modular? That does not make sense. That is the whole point of BAIN packages. It is way easier to modify a install configurations with BAIN. Instead of uninstalling and reinstalling the entire mod with a few changes, you can just anneal a package in BAIN and it will only modify the necessary files. ...talk about misinformation...

 

BAIN Mod Installation Projects - http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1084204-bain-mod-installation-projects/ <-- want to see BAIN modular?

 

 

Edit: What Psymon has done there is right up your alley, if my reading comprehension has not plummeted...

Eh, what I meant is that it doesn't have scripting, so there's no popups to make a choice on what modules to install and what not to install. It's still essentially extracting an archive right into the data directory, with the caveat that you do indeed have BAIN redirections. I like that a complex BAIN package lets you explicitly define the order of install and sub-packages inside a single package. But its still only doing what I was doing before with multiple archives named such that I knew what order to install and uninstall. It just needs to go that one extra step, which you've already said they are working on.

There is not a big difference between checking one subpackage and choosing yes to an IF DialogYesNo prompt, but I guess even that is more than some users want to do. Automated install can only do so much to help the user with mods. If the choice is between two plugins, I think BAIN handles that better. How many authors write scripts for mods where the choice is only either-or. There is no need to write a script for that with BAIN. The user just needs to check one. Simple.

 

Also, I did not mean to point out the sorting within subpackages, but the combining. BAIN, inherently supports prioritized installation, which is one of my top reasons for promoting it. My Installers tab has over 800 packages in that. Try to keep those sorted by installation order in OBMM, haha. Anyway, I think Wrye Bash v286b will be out soon. You should check out the docs.

 

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

[dharh]

There is not a big difference between checking one subpackage and choosing yes to an IF DialogYesNo prompt, but I guess even that is more than some users want to do. Automated install can only do so much to help the user with mods. If the choice is between two plugins, I think BAIN handles that better. How many authors write scripts for mods where the choice is only either-or. There is no need to write a script for that with BAIN. The user just needs to check one. Simple.

 

Also, I did not mean to point out the sorting within subpackages, but the combining. BAIN, inherently supports prioritized installation, which is one of my top reasons for promoting it. My Installers tab has over 800 packages in that. Try to keep those sorted by installation order in OBMM, haha. Anyway, I think Wrye Bash v286b will be out soon. You should check out the docs.

 

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

 

An IF DailogYesNo prompt is too simple an example. A Switch "Option 1","Option 2","Option 3",..."Option 7", is what id be going for. Also having nested options. Where a sub-package depends on a previous sub-package. If I choose option 2, I might have certain things I can choose from in the next dialog box, if I choose 7, I get a different set of options. I would kill for a script command to for one package to check the validity of another package. Such that if I try to install x117 it has a script that can check and verify whether MBP has been installed, if it the right version, and can even CRC check all the needed files.

 

A month ago I was using OBMM and kept running into multiple packages overwriting other packages textures/meshes. With just a few dozen OMODs I could not bloody figure out which one had precedence. Thats when I started looking into wrye bash. So I still have a bit to learn about wrye. Reading more stuff about wrye as we speak.

 

But like the author of the link you gave me, I am iffy on BCFs. Other than that I agree it's a great way to repackage without actually distributing the files all over again and to not trample on the rights of mod creators, I still have to do manual work on files installed after using a BCF. The user if a downloaded BCF still have to go all over the net to get the required packages. With many of the cross language packages these days, or worse dead links all over the place, it can get quite tough.

 

I'm glad to see there are people out there who are as enthusiastic about package management and installation as I am.

[Tomlong54210]

There is not a big difference between checking one subpackage and choosing yes to an IF DialogYesNo prompt, but I guess even that is more than some users want to do. Automated install can only do so much to help the user with mods. If the choice is between two plugins, I think BAIN handles that better. How many authors write scripts for mods where the choice is only either-or. There is no need to write a script for that with BAIN. The user just needs to check one. Simple.

 

Also, I did not mean to point out the sorting within subpackages, but the combining. BAIN, inherently supports prioritized installation, which is one of my top reasons for promoting it. My Installers tab has over 800 packages in that. Try to keep those sorted by installation order in OBMM, haha. Anyway, I think Wrye Bash v286b will be out soon. You should check out the docs.

 

 

Happy gaming!

- Tomlong54210

 

An IF DailogYesNo prompt is too simple an example. A Switch "Option 1","Option 2","Option 3",..."Option 7", is what id be going for. Also having nested options. Where a sub-package depends on a previous sub-package. If I choose option 2, I might have certain things I can choose from in the next dialog box, if I choose 7, I get a different set of options. I would kill for a script command to for one package to check the validity of another package. Such that if I try to install x117 it has a script that can check and verify whether MBP has been installed, if it the right version, and can even CRC check all the needed files.

 

A month ago I was using OBMM and kept running into multiple packages overwriting other packages textures/meshes. With just a few dozen OMODs I could not bloody figure out which one had precedence. Thats when I started looking into wrye bash. So I still have a bit to learn about wrye. Reading more stuff about wrye as we speak.

 

But like the author of the link you gave me, I am iffy on BCFs. Other than that I agree it's a great way to repackage without actually distributing the files all over again and to not trample on the rights of mod creators, I still have to do manual work on files installed after using a BCF. The user if a downloaded BCF still have to go all over the net to get the required packages. With many of the cross language packages these days, or worse dead links all over the place, it can get quite tough.

 

I'm glad to see there are people out there who are as enthusiastic about package management and installation as I am.

BAIN packages takes care of switch statements too. BAIN packages require more logical installation. Download Robert v5 Beta (which I repackaged) or Better Cities. Those are both good examples of BAIN packaging. Options 1-7 could all be numbered 01, to say that they are exclusive, or they could all be numbered with some multiple of 10 (i.e., 10, 20, 30, 40) and sub-options would be (1X, 2X, 3X, 4X.) The packaging structure used depends on the mod. Most mods, fortunately, do not require big switch statements, but there are many possibilities with BAIN packaging.

[dharh]

BAIN packages takes care of switch statements too. BAIN packages require more logical installation. Download Robert v5 Beta (which I repackaged) or Better Cities. Those are both good examples of BAIN packaging. Options 1-7 could all be numbered 01, to say that they are exclusive, or they could all be numbered with some multiple of 10 (i.e., 10, 20, 30, 40) and sub-options would be (1X, 2X, 3X, 4X.) The packaging structure used depends on the mod. Most mods, fortunately, do not require big switch statements, but there are many possibilities with BAIN packaging.

I guess im converted. Any idea if they support 10X sub-sub packages? Guess I could figure that out for myself later. Anyway, thanks for schoolin me.

[Nexus Set]

Wrye Bash + BAIN FTW! Welcome to the club, dharh!

 

The only real use I have for OBMM is it's BSA explorer utility. Otherwise, I manage all my mods with BAIN.

 

@Tomlong54210: Is Wrye Bash 286 out already? 'coz you mentioned about 286b. I grabbed a svn snapshot of a 286 from sourceforge though, since the released 285 had a wonky bashed patch. But I haven't seen an update on TESNexus.

[Tomlong54210]

BAIN packages takes care of switch statements too. BAIN packages require more logical installation. Download Robert v5 Beta (which I repackaged) or Better Cities. Those are both good examples of BAIN packaging. Options 1-7 could all be numbered 01, to say that they are exclusive, or they could all be numbered with some multiple of 10 (i.e., 10, 20, 30, 40) and sub-options would be (1X, 2X, 3X, 4X.) The packaging structure used depends on the mod. Most mods, fortunately, do not require big switch statements, but there are many possibilities with BAIN packaging.

I guess im converted. Any idea if they support 10X sub-sub packages? Guess I could figure that out for myself later. Anyway, thanks for schoolin me.

BC has...20 maybe?? I have no clue what the limit is, but you probably will not run into it. The limit would probably one of those memory numbers, maybe 256 or something, who knows...

 

Wrye Bash + BAIN FTW! Welcome to the club, dharh!

 

The only real use I have for OBMM is it's BSA explorer utility. Otherwise, I manage all my mods with BAIN.

 

@Tomlong54210: Is Wrye Bash 286 out already? 'coz you mentioned about 286b. I grabbed a svn snapshot of a 286 from sourceforge though, since the released 285 had a wonky bashed patch. But I haven't seen an update on TESNexus.

It sounds like v286 will not be out for a while. The CBash integration has gone further than expected, but it has increased the debugging load. It might be out by the end of this month.

[Nexus Set]

...

It sounds like v286 will not be out for a while. The CBash integration has gone further than expected, but it has increased the debugging load. It might be out by the end of this month.

 

ok, thanks for the info. The version that I got is holding up fine, so no worries there.

[VileTouch]

that's a really good idea, packaging everything just ensures that files stay as they are supposed to. for instance, i have Pyfiied nearly every single mesh in vanilla oblivion. (some exceptions, thank's to tomlong's excellent tutorial on the matter), then rebuilt the stock meshes.bsa including all the unofficial patches pertinent, and REVWD highly optimized lod meshes. [then compress all, medium] so now i do not have to worry on mods overwriting these meshes. and causing lag.

 

next thing i did was to Pyfii and BSA all of FCOM resources (that's the absolute full package, with all optional mods.) all of my weapons, armors, clothes, are also Pyfiied,tinkered with (correct some stretched texture here and there, add egm to helmets needing them, correcting normal maps, etc.) and into a single BSA. things such as unique landscapes,region revive, trails of cyrodiil,roads and bridges, and such also get into a single bsa. castles (i have a LOT of those) and other houses also get packaged.

 

so why do that? to ease reinstalls! it is a real pain to reinstall oblivion when you are reaching 400 mods. the only problem i see about that is updates...

you have to merge the esp updates, and rebuild the bsa every now and then. but really really saves disk space and defragmentation time while maintaining the same average load times in game.

 

So what's left outside? QTP... and am really thinking on merging that one into textures-compressed.bsa too. of course, that leaves me with about 10 BIG BSA files, about 50 BIG esp and over a hundred small sub-megabyte mods and patches....plus the bashed patch. total space? 21gb.

total space before doing all that? 39gb plus more than 350 assorted mods and patches that were mostly causing lag and serious dificulties every time i rebuilt my bashed patch. (your load list is overloaded!, blah!)

 

 

but i can tell you this. what REALLY made a difference was 1) Undeleting and Disabling EVERYTHING in all of the mods installed. and 2) Pyfiing EVERYTHING from ALL mods!. I hardly ever have a crash any more. and average 30fps wether indoors or out. 20fps while in combat and i have not that great of a machine either!, i mean, it's not bad, but i could be much much better.

 

 

so good luck in your project. just wanted to let you know my remarks.

[dharh]

that's a really good idea, packaging everything just ensures that files stay as they are supposed to. for instance, i have Pyfiied nearly every single mesh in vanilla oblivion. (some exceptions, thank's to tomlong's excellent tutorial on the matter), then rebuilt the stock meshes.bsa including all the unofficial patches pertinent, and REVWD highly optimized lod meshes. [then compress all, medium] so now i do not have to worry on mods overwriting these meshes. and causing lag.

 

next thing i did was to Pyfii and BSA all of FCOM resources (that's the absolute full package, with all optional mods.) all of my weapons, armors, clothes, are also Pyfiied,tinkered with (correct some stretched texture here and there, add egm to helmets needing them, correcting normal maps, etc.) and into a single BSA. things such as unique landscapes,region revive, trails of cyrodiil,roads and bridges, and such also get into a single bsa. castles (i have a LOT of those) and other houses also get packaged.

 

so why do that? to ease reinstalls! it is a real pain to reinstall oblivion when you are reaching 400 mods. the only problem i see about that is updates...

you have to merge the esp updates, and rebuild the bsa every now and then. but really really saves disk space and defragmentation time while maintaining the same average load times in game.

 

So what's left outside? QTP... and am really thinking on merging that one into textures-compressed.bsa too. of course, that leaves me with about 10 BIG BSA files, about 50 BIG esp and over a hundred small sub-megabyte mods and patches....plus the bashed patch. total space? 21gb.

total space before doing all that? 39gb plus more than 350 assorted mods and patches that were mostly causing lag and serious dificulties every time i rebuilt my bashed patch. (your load list is overloaded!, blah!)

 

 

but i can tell you this. what REALLY made a difference was 1) Undeleting and Disabling EVERYTHING in all of the mods installed. and 2) Pyfiing EVERYTHING from ALL mods!. I hardly ever have a crash any more. and average 30fps wether indoors or out. 20fps while in combat and i have not that great of a machine either!, i mean, it's not bad, but i could be much much better.

 

 

so good luck in your project. just wanted to let you know my remarks.

 

Thanks for the comment. That is exactly what I intend to do. Act like the unofficial patches are official and patch them into the BSA files. Sounds like I have a long ways to go before I get anywhere near your mod collection, but you're proof that using BSAs helps quite a bit. And yeah pyffing stuff seems to have been making a huge difference for me already and I haven't even done the official BSAs yet.

 

I'm curious how far you go with pyffing meshes as from the stuff i've read certain meshes can be optimized quite a bit (Architecture, Clutter, Dungeons, Furniture, Landscape, Plants, Rocks, Sky), others not so much, and even some (hair, helmet, some creatures, some clothes) can get bugged out.