Where do you draw the line?

[Hoamaii]

Knowing the kind of skimpy armors I design for male, I certainly couldn't be considered neither prude nor square, but after taking a curious glance (users keep asking that I convert my armors to a non-Nexus mod) at another Skyrim modding website yesterday, I started wondering where us Nexus people draw the line? How much do we authorize ourselves to trespass our real-life morality when playing or modding a game?

 

I remember the years when I had to play Oblivion 3 times before ever joining the Dark Brotherhood because the idea of murder appalled me even in a game (incidentally, at least in Oblivion we were given a reason why murder was called on some NPCs - in Skyrim, we don't). I even played Skyrim twice (ok on PS3) before I used skimpy stuff - yeah, that may sound prude, I agree, but it was damn cold out there before Tropical Skyrim was released!.. And I started designing skimpy armors for males as a joke, because it felt unfair that (as in real life, mind you) revealing the female body seems to be commonly praised while revealing the male one can still be frowned upon.

 

But what I saw there, on that other website, really troubled me. You may think I'm over-reacting to what was just a superficial overview and sure, I have some admiration for the animators' skills (and I do play the DB quests now - still somewhat reluctantly :blush:), but I could never caution, excuse or support anything that advertises rape, torture or slavery. I absolutely don't mind mods like SoS or ASX if you're an adult player, to me they do not reflect anything else but natural and sane human needs, but that's as far as I'll go - I don't even get close to the Vanilla torture racks, don't know how they work and don't want to know.

 

A little while back, an animation mod was uploaded on the Nexus which let PC and NPC kiss - ok, it had to go because the original author withdrew his initial implicit permission - but that mod was truly cute and sweet. It made me want to learn animation just to do that: be able to shake hands, hug, cuddle, pat your dog, anything friendly. I suppose there may be some sweet mods on that other website but I'm never downloading from there, just because of these keywords in their search engine: rape, torture, slavery.

 

So I was wondering where do we draw the line between real life and gaming behaviors? It seems commonly admitted that killing every NPC in sight in a game does not make us potential mass-murderers in real life. But on the other hand, racist jokes are punished by Law in my country and I support that - who could say that there is no racist background in a racist joker? And is there such a fundamental difference between a joke and a game?

 

Anyway, after that little Internet incursion last night, I guess I know where my lines are. Where do you guys draw yours?

 

Not judging or lecturing here, I swear (I'm sure lots of users could frown at my own mods - or call me dumb for my DB reluctance) - just honest, simple, human concern I'd like to share with you guys...

 

Hoamaii

 

 

@ Admins: if I have broken any Nexus good behavior rule I may have misunderstood in this post, I apologize in advance - please let me know and delete this thread.

[Corwin1971]

For the most part, I'm comfortable separating what I do in a game from what I would do in real life. I have committed thousands upon thousands of murders in games over the years and, it probably doesn't surprise you, zero in real life, but it's very rare that a game focuses on those deaths in a way that unnerves me.

 

Still, I do almost always play "good" characters when I have that option. I help people out, avoid killing innocents, and generally pick all the nice guy options. The behaviors that are commonly understand to be "bad" but have no obvious negative impact on anyone in-game (like stealing everything from a house), I tend not to think too much about.

 

As far as skimpy clothing and such goes, I don't use any of it because it's distracting and silly to me. I don't object on moral grounds, but I don't want it in my game.

[Valkasha]

Anything sex related and armors with clearly visible privates. Also, mods like civil war overhaul without proper warnings on it's page. Sure it says to only install on a fresh save, but it doesn't mention it will destroy older saves.

[Hoamaii]

@ Valkasha: hehe, yeah, I sure try to stay away from stuff that'll corrupt my saves too... Come to think of it, I never even played the Civil war - I even installed a mod just to avoid killing Parthurnax... Sigh.

 

@ Crowin1971: Yeah, I usually don't give much thought about it either and being an addict gamer, I'm usually the first one in conversations to defend the fact that games do not encourage violent behaviors any more than Agatha Christi ever did. So it sort of came as a shock, I guess, to realize that I did in fact draw a line somewhere.

 

That's why I was curious to know if you guys did too.

[Valkasha]

Everyone is racist to an extent, making a joke illegal is censorship and wrong. You might as well ban every religion too then, since every religion discriminates.

[LoneWolfEburg]

Yeah, people 's degree of separation of their actions in games and their actions in real life differs from person to person with any correlation of their in-game and RL actions being weak to non-existent. Of course the correlation is probably much stronger at certain kind of games (usually those set in modern reality or close to it with the blatant intent of propagandising outright hateful views), but Skyrim isn't one.

[Valkasha]

You mean you never tried to fus-ro-dah your mother-in-law?

[LoneWolfEburg]

As for my behaviour in RPG's, I'm pretty close to a "moral" player, but I am aware that there exist "evil" players who may be better people than me. They just have a low "correlation factor".

Of course, there sure are some nasty people who commit nasty acts in-game because they're nasty themselves. Their correlation factor is high.

Edited September 30, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[Hoamaii]

Everyone is racist to an extent, making a joke illegal is censorship and wrong. You might as well ban every religion too then, since every religion discriminates.

 

Well, there are some mean jokes around. I used to think like you that this was censorship, until I met some old Jew who had survived WW II who explained to me that some stupid jokes told repeatedly around weak minds or stupid people, or just people who do not care, can lead to terrible unwanted results. Look at Hitler's Nazi propaganda and find one poster claim which never was a pre-war joke at some point... This old Jew was right, and I was wrong. This is an extreme example, I agree, but one that changed my perspective. At "best", a mean joke will "just" hurt someone's feelings, I find nothing laughable about deliberately hurting anyone.

I live in France, censorship is not exactly our strong suit - I'm actually glad that our politicians are not allowed to make racist jokes or assessments.

[nivea]

I tend to t let a large amount of stuff not bother me in a game when it comes to modding (however when its a real large name company doing stupid s#*! I let it bother me alot, because they represent more then just a single person they represent a huge part of the gaming industry), modding is about letting people make anything they feel like making and that can lead to doing alot of stuff that is not legal or morally right in the real world. I personally try to look at it as art, people can draw, sculpt, write pretty much anything in my opinion as its about expression and I feel its important to be able to express yourself.

 

However, YOU as a modder have the right to not want any part of those things as well. I have gotten a pretty large share of people asking for my animal mods to be used in hardcore beast sex mods (yes bestiality), I dont care if people make those mods personally but I DO care how my work is portrayed and I did not want my Corgi to be used in that way (the people who asked where very polite about it and respected my wishes, which I very much appreciate).

 

If YOU do not feel like you want to be part of that community or if a mod makes you uncomfy then please DO NOT feel like you must force yourself to please others by making it, DO NOT DO IT.

 

People grow and change over time even as just a modder or game player, I know I am not the same girl I was when I started modding and my tastes have almost done a complete turn around (I LOVE super sexy male stuff, but I find now I put more important on lore friendly items while still enjoying the sexy male stuff) . One day maybe you will feel you want to do those mods, but until then dont worry about it. If you still feel you need to do more for others then simply give permission for someone to port your stuff to the other body, make the requesters do more and you worry about it less.