Where do you draw the line?

[Hoamaii]

Hey Nivea,

 

Actually I'm not questioning these guys' morality, I was more questioning my own. I don't know them, except for the occasional permission requests or people asking me to adapt my stuff, and they've always been very nice and understanding about my declining. I know people change, I've only been modding for a little more than a year and I'm already feeling the need to move from armors to lots of other stuff - I've been working on completely different types of mods, learning scripting along the way, nothing skimpy or sexy about it at all. What I enjoy most about modding really is learning new stuff, and the possibilities in Skyrim with plugins like SKSE or FNIS are always expanding... Yeah, sometimes I feel like I'm forcing myself when adapting from Sundracon to FavoredSoul for instance when I only use the 1st one, but that's no big deal, I look at it like skinning practice in a sense. But it stops there.

 

I think I just realized that despite my fairly rich life experience, I am more innocent than I thought in some areas. I usually don't join online communities, the Nexus plus a few months on TESOnline are really the only gaming ones I've ever actively joined,with occasionnally the Wiki and TESalliance. I never had before the curiosity to take a look at other websites. I guess the Nexus has made me a very preserved modder and I'm grateful for this.

 

LoneWolfEburg up here mentions the correlation factor there may be between our gaming and real-life behaviors, I suppose mine is fairly high and that's probably why I enjoy Bethesda's open worlds and immersive games so much... ;). Still I can't help wondering what Bethesda game creators might think about some crazy mods out there which transforms their creation into a whole different kind of arena...

[DamarStiehl]

A game is a game.

Real life is real life.

If you want to play a necropedomassmurderrapist, then play one. If you don't, then don't.

 

Real world morality does not apply to games. People who insist otherwise need to look in the mirror until they feel ashamed of their own inability to separate real from virtual.

[Oubliette]

I'm one of those people for whom the concept of fantasy not being reality is pretty much ingrained. I would no more attempt to place my morality over one of my characters in a TES game than I would attempt to place it over Hannibal. Intellectual exercises like 'what I'd do if,' are sometimes entertaining but again - not the same as seeing my game character as myself and every thing they do as being a reflection on my morality.

 

Now the TES games are designed to give players as much freedom as possible so if something makes you uncomfortable you can mod it out or exclude it from your playstyle entirely. I remember back in the day there was a mod for MW that basically removed all the killing and turned it into a fantasy adventure for kids because the modder was uncomfortable with all the violence. So there's really no reason to feel like you have to come to terms with things outside of your comfort zone in order to enjoy the games even if you have problems separating reality from fantasy.

[DamarStiehl]

I wish there was a "like" button.

[Hoamaii]

Your reactions are interesting, guys, thanks. The "it's just a game" excuse is certainly valid to an extent - sure, slaughtering NPCs is no more "killing" than playing Tetris or chess is, it is merely a reflex, something we do without thinking or meaning. But I'd be very alarmed to see kids - or even adults for that matter, actually stage pedophile rapes or torture scenes through modding. Modding requires some planning and a minimum of thinking ahead, both from the modder and the user. I'd be worried not so much because I'd fear real life consequences but more so because I'd be wondering where the hell in this person's life the idea took shape that child molesting or torture can be any kind of fun. Because we play games to have fun, right? It makes no difference whether it's a real-life football game or a fantasy video game.

 

In every culture and every times, games have been an essential life-learning tool. Things are not different today and video games are no exception. Still, like Plato said: "you can learn a lot more about a person in an hour of playing a game than in a whole year of conversation". I'm sure we've all experienced that first hand playing online for instance.

 

Again, not judging at all, just concerned. Even as a very minor modder, I still feel like I bear some responsibility when I upload a mod because I have absolutely no way of knowing who the user is going to be, and for all I know it could just as well be a kid.

[Valkasha]

 

Everyone is racist to an extent, making a joke illegal is censorship and wrong. You might as well ban every religion too then, since every religion discriminates.

 

Well, there are some mean jokes around. I used to think like you that this was censorship, until I met some old Jew who had survived WW II who explained to me that some stupid jokes told repeatedly around weak minds or stupid people, or just people who do not care, can lead to terrible unwanted results. Look at Hitler's Nazi propaganda and find one poster claim which never was a pre-war joke at some point... This old Jew was right, and I was wrong. This is an extreme example, I agree, but one that changed my perspective. At "best", a mean joke will "just" hurt someone's feelings, I find nothing laughable about deliberately hurting anyone.

I live in France, censorship is not exactly our strong suit - I'm actually glad that our politicians are not allowed to make racist jokes or assessments.

 

 

Not being insulted is not a right. Everyone can claim they are insulted by something, you can't make laws for that. It's a slippery slope towards heavy censorship, if insults towards one group become illegal the next group will be knocking on your door. And then you can't deny them or else you are discriminating. etc etc slippery slope achieved.

[LoneWolfEburg]

 

But I'd be very alarmed to see kids - or even adults for that matter, actually stage pedophile rapes or torture scenes through modding.

Uploading mods in which the player is able to do a pedophilic rape is likely forbidden on Nexus.

 

 

I'd fear real life consequences but more so because I'd be wondering where the hell in this person's life the idea took shape that child molesting or torture can be any kind of fun. Because we play games to have fun, right? It makes no difference whether it's a real-life football game or a fantasy video game.

In general, you can deliberately roleplay an "evil" character as a sort of exploration of a mindset that is different than yours, having a more detached perception of your in-game avatar, no different than writing a story from the standpoint of a villain protagonist. (See this blog - http://skyrimandmorality.blogspot.com/ - in particular the second character, that starts November 2013). Or you can be someone who is detached from the game in general, don't care for maintaining the illusion in your mind that the characters are anything other than a bunch of pixels, and is just exploring the possibilities of the in-game system.

 

 

Even as a very minor modder, I still feel like I bear some responsibility when I upload a mod because I have absolutely no way of knowing who the user is going to be, and for all I know it could just as well be a kid.

Eh, I don't think that your omgsmexyoutfit stuff needs to bother anyone :)

Edited October 1, 2014 by LoneWolfEburg

[NightGuardX]

I draw the line.....nowhere....

Seriously though I mostly download any mods as it dosen't really matter to me as long as they fit my tastes.

I am mostly moral in real life, but in Skyrim I do things I would NEVER dream of. :laugh:

Also If racist jokes are outlawed in your country then well I know a lot of people who would be jailed by now...(I agree with Valkasha, it really shouldn't be illegal...)

[NightGuardX]

I've seen some "dirty" mods in my day, but I've never seen something that horrid (Here atleast... *shivers*).

Anyways, I think that being evil and cruel in a game says nothing about you in real life. :laugh:

I mean I would be a craized sword wielding maniac if that was true.... :smile:

[nivea]

I personally only truly draw the line at anything with children when it comes to modding (and by modding I mean sexual stuff), everyone else can enjoy whatever they want with no worry of judgement from me expect with children I then will judge you from across the modder room.

 

I had a child mod up once and got so many requests for highly inappropriate stuff for them/about them/to them that I removed the mod after the last straw of parts of it being stolen, and now I have a VERY strict policy and none of my stuff is to be used/edited for children. It truly upset and creeped me out.

 

I still believe if it makes you unhappy or uncomfy do not do it, I dont care what kind of "peer pressure" people may throw at you (hell even pressure from yourself to just get over it). This is a hobby for fun, if its not fun for you personally then dont consider it. :)

 

Hoamaii: I like your mods personally. ;)