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Player sandboxing mod

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#11
devinpatterson

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the only thing you can do with a package is forcing an idle to play. Maybe some of the flags work too (i.e. wielding a weapon), I never tried, however the package itself won't work on you. Any package invoked on you will disable your commands, nothing more.


Thanks for saving me some time Fallout2am. Makes sense considering the player has no actual AI. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Ladez since he's pretty sharp with scripting (and to be fair he did say it might), and there's a million things/aspects/skillsets to learn with fallout. Yeah I'v seen the packages that force an idle, both that Ladez reffered in Doc's house to and in the begining of dead money as well.
 

If you want to sandbox, I guess the only way is making something fake, like fake cutscenes, which requires a good amount of scripting and the reaction is not so immediate - at least half second / 1 second to trigger and another half second / 1 second to quit from that fake sandbox mode. In my opinion, a solution like that doesn't deserve so much.


So we can use packages to force some idle animations, just out of curiosity do you know if that will work with animated objects as well (drinking a cup off a table or sweeping if a animated broom is around). If not I suppose it's possible to rig a cup, broom whatever to complete the illusion (and equip it as an armor addon when the package is called).

But I think there may be a better way. It's a cheat, all smoke and mirrors. Essentially go with some of the scripts we were PM'ing back and forth with (your's, Illyism's, Jojash and jazzisparis). Long story short, we clone a NPC of the player. MatchFaceGeometry, all equipment, add to the player faction the whole nine yards, DisablePlayerControls to force 3rd person, and use setalpha or setscale to make the player invisible as they are toted along with the clone. All until a key hit or the mouse is moved. Then we can use all the standard packages fine and it will appear to be happening to the player.

Thoughts Fallout2am?

#12
sullyvanj93

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I can dig that idea. itd be a lot simpler, I know other animations have used that approach. then its a simple task of making the animation as any other NPC?



#13
Fallout2AM

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So we can use packages to force some idle animations, just out of curiosity do you know if that will work with animated objects as well (drinking a cup off a table or sweeping if a animated broom is around). If not I suppose it's possible to rig a cup, broom whatever to complete the illusion (and equip it as an armor addon when the package is called).


I never had the need to use it with a AO but I don't see a reason why it shouldn't work. I'm pretty confident to think they will work.
 

But I think there may be a better way. It's a cheat, all smoke and mirrors. Essentially go with some of the scripts we were PM'ing back and forth with (your's, Illyism's, Jojash and jazzisparis). Long story short, we clone a NPC of the player. MatchFaceGeometry, all equipment, add to the player faction the whole nine yards, DisablePlayerControls to force 3rd person, and use setalpha or setscale to make the player invisible as they are toted along with the clone. All until a key hit or the mouse is moved. Then we can use all the standard packages fine and it will appear to be happening to the player.

Thoughts Fallout2am?


Exactly what I was thinking. The only way *I know* and think it's possible is doing a completely fake scene using clones (i.e this one). The downside of this is that requires some time to prepare the scene, it's not super smooth, it's not like the "fashon camera" or what's its name... you know that camera that starts spinning around you when you don't use the game. When you touch the mouse it instantly comes back to the game. Everytime you invoke some fake scene you need half / one second to do that. I don't think the result would be super pretty.



#14
devinpatterson

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I can dig that idea. itd be a lot simpler, I know other animations have used that approach.


which mods have you seen the cloning in? I'd like to check them out and see what issues they'v addressed.
 

then its a simple task of making the animation as any other NPC?


Well utilizing.

The clone is just another NPC (although it will be in the player faction, have a copy of worn equipement, and other details). So we can utilize any package (we'll have a travel package to keep him/her close to the current position) normally, and play some idle animations. If there's a bed nearby the player may take a nap, if there's food s/he may eat. If someone attacks the cloned courier s/he and any companions will answer in kind. Behind the scenes the actual playerRef is invisible behind the clone being moved via script. This assures that the camera is active and follows the POV of the clone, keeps the player with the clone in case he is in a prolonged combat (or gives chase) and has moved from the current position, etc.

Default would probably be the typical 3rd person over the shoulder view. But you I believe something like this is also do-able (vid);

Spoiler


If it didn't cause the camera to zoom around too much (ie not too disorienting) is might be a bit more immersive, like the multiple camera angles a movie is shot from.




 

Exactly what I was thinking. The only way *I know* and think it's possible is doing a completely fake scene using clones (i.e this one).


Interesting, I would have guessed that was strictly a visual effect, like a shader. From watching it I wouldn't have picked up that the author created a second actor. But the video is so short and they are playing a dance animation in sync so...

 

it's not like the "fashon camera" or what's its name... you know that camera that starts spinning around you when you don't use the game.


I think it's generically called a vanitycam or vanity camera in fallout/tes.
 

The downside of this is that requires some time to prepare the scene... When you touch the mouse it instantly comes back to the game. Everytime you invoke some fake scene you need half / one second to do that. I don't think the result would be super pretty.


Does the extra time come from MatchFaceGeometry? I'v never used it, so I don't know how long it takes. But the other functions seem like they could happen very quickly. And disabling the clone ref should be instant. Because we can just set the vanity cam to activate at some ridiculous time frame so that it doesn't even come into play But even so if there is a short half or one second delay I think it's more than a fair trade for the flexibility this allows over just forcing some idle animations.

I'll poke around a bit and start putting the script together.

I can also use the cloning script, once it's solid to build upon my dead money jury rigged items (request for cloud stuff grenades and mines), by making holo decoys from scavenged holo emitters. They wouldn't be like a full dead money holos, doing no damage, but more like Zero's (from borderlands) deception decoy, just drawing fire.



#15
Fallout2AM

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then its a simple task of making the animation as any other NPC?

Interesting, I would have guessed that was strictly a visual effect, like a shader. From watching it I wouldn't have picked up that the author created a second actor. But the video is so short and they are playing a dance animation in sync so...


Well... that character is walking, and player can't walk via script... this is not skyrim :sad:
So yes, that character is a clone of the player, it moves from a place to another using AddScriptPackage. In the meantime the player (which is the "camera") follows the whole scene (you can see the camera rotating as the clone moves), this is done with GetHeadingAngle. And then when the clone reaches location, an idle is triggered and a setscale increases progressively its dimension, of 0.01 every frame.
You can see a practical example of using clones to fake the player's activities in those mods like "see you in bed", those that show your player going to bed, usually it's a clone going to bed. I also think Project Brazil uses the same script when you are going to bed (or when you wake up? mmmh I don't remember)
 

Does the extra time come from MatchFaceGeometry? I'v never used it, so I don't know how long it takes. But the other functions seem like they could happen very quickly. And disabling the clone ref should be instant. Because we can just set the vanity cam to activate at some ridiculous time frame so that it doesn't even come into play But even so if there is a short half or one second delay I think it's more than a fair trade for the flexibility this allows over just forcing some idle animations.

MatchFaceGeometry doesn't work for what I'm aware.
You usually create a clone of yourself with PlaceAtMe and referencing to a variable so you can "use" it on scripts:

Let MyCloneREF := PlaceAtMe 7 1

The clone will be naked, so you will have to dress it properly, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to MarkForDelete when you finished to "use" it. There's also pipboy mods to handle, because they can cause CTDs and other issues so there must be some extra code to handle them. Doing these operations is what causes me the whole procedure slower.

Edited by Fallout2AM, 15 February 2015 - 11:14 AM.


#16
devinpatterson

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Well... that character is walking, and player can't walk via script... this is not skyrim :sad:


Can you expand a little on that, I'm not sure I understand completely.
 

Well... that character is walking, and player can't walk via script... this is not skyrim :sad:
So yes, that character is a clone of the player, it moves from a place to another using AddScriptPackage. In the meantime the player (which is the "camera") follows the whole scene (you can see the camera rotating as the clone moves), this is done with GetHeadingAngle. And then when the clone reaches location, an idle is triggered and a setscale increases progressively its dimension, of 0.01 every frame.


OK got that, makes sense.
 

You can see a practical example of using clones to fake the player's activities in those mods like "see you in bed", those that show your player going to bed, usually it's a clone going to bed. I also think Project Brazil uses the same script when you are going to bed (or when you wake up? mmmh I don't remember)


OK I'll check for them, maybe they'll be useful as a guideline. 
 

MatchFaceGeometry doesn't work for what I'm aware.
You usually create a clone of yourself with PlaceAtMe and referencing to a variable so you can "use" it on scripts:

Let MyCloneREF := PlaceAtMe 7 1


OK so I don't think your saying that MatchFaceGeometry doesn't work, but rather you don't need it for this purpose/application. That would save having to matchrace and other functions as well. I havn't used assignment (:=) but I'll look into it.
 

The clone will be naked, so you will have to dress it properly, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to MarkForDelete when you finished to "use" it.


I'll use GetEqObj.
 

There's also pipboy mods to handle, because they can cause CTDs and other issues so there must be some extra code to handle them. Doing these operations is what causes me the whole procedure slower.


Can you expand a little on this point? Since I'll be using the NPC version of the pipboy, I'm curious what conflicts it will cause and extra code will be needed.

#17
Fallout2AM

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"character can't walk via script, this isn't skyrim" - I was meaning that Player can't walk using a script, while in Skyrim it can. In the video I linked you, there's the Player walking, so of course it was a clone of the player and not the player itself. Sorry sometimes I loose in translations :smile:

 

In this case you don't need it, right, but I also was saying that matchfacegeometry doesn't work. At least, I never used it, someone told me that, I think Xilandro told me that once.

 

About Let:

Let somevar := somevalue

is the same that write:

Set somevar to somevalue

 

So that becomes : Set MyCloneREF to PlaceAtMe 7 1. I forgot the refence where it must spawn >>>> so it becomes Set MyCloneREF to someref.PlaceAtMe 7 1

 

About the pipboy, it doesn't cause issues when you have no mods installed. When you dress up your clone, it's better if you consider every slot, because some mods use some slots like backpack, addon etc.etc.

However, you should leave out some of the slots because it will CTD, I think 2 and 6 must be left away, I don't remember exactly, I should check in my scripts.

But if you have some mods that change pipboy, you will probably have to add some extra code.

If you have readius for example, you will have to remove the pipboy because the clone always spawns with the original pipboy on the arm.

Other pipboys require some test. I tried my scripts only with the 3 most famous models and it was working fine, but I do know a user who had a CTD. however she was using TTW so I couldn't replicate the issue.

In general, I can't say I had the possiblity to try these things on a large player base, which is what is required in my opinion


Edited by Fallout2AM, 15 February 2015 - 08:54 PM.


#18
devinpatterson

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In this case you don't need it, right, but I also was saying that matchfacegeometry doesn't work. At least, I never used it, someone told me that, I think Xilandro told me that once.


Awwww I hope not. I mean I havn't had a reason to use it, but I could see some good plot hooks based on it. Like plastic surgery that alters the players face to match a potential target/subject that the player must pose as. Infiltration mods have a lot of potential.
 

About the pipboy, it doesn't cause issues when you have no mods installed. When you dress up your clone, it's better if you consider every slot, because some mods use some slots like backpack, addon etc.etc.
However, you should leave out some of the slots because it will CTD, I think 2 and 6 must be left away, I don't remember exactly, I should check in my scripts.


Ah OK I'll keep that in mind, thanks
 

But if you have some mods that change pipboy, you will probably have to add some extra code.
If you have readius for example, you will have to remove the pipboy because the clone always spawns with the original pipboy on the arm.


Ah, OK I see. Yeah I hadn't given pipboy replacements any consideration.

Thanks for the info Fallout2am, I appreciate it.

#19
devinpatterson

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Crap I just remembered I did want to use MatchFaceGeometry on a potential mod. I wanted to do a adventure based on the fake American towns built in Russia that were used to train KGB spies. The idea being that Fallout America would have fake Chinese towns to train Asian-Americans to spy in China. After the war the towns continued to believe they were Chinese (thanks to deep C.O.D.E programming) with only the very highest officials knowing the truth. Did a little bit of a thread on the russian angle here. I thought it would be interesting to be in teh belly of the beast (so to speak). MatchFaceGeometry was going to be used to change the player character features to Asian as part of his/her infiltration. 

 

Well hope it works  :blink:







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