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An odd Dead Money request


Haluesen

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So, I have a very strange request for people here, or at least to me it feels strange. Is there any mod, or could someone with experience make a mod, to make Dead Money...harder? Or more interesting?

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a fun DLC, probably my favorite one, if Old World Blues isn't. But it was only really hard the first time I played, and even then not very much. I could raise the difficult in-game some to make the Ghost People tougher, but that really barely does anything. They don't fight in an interesting way so even when they do more damage dealing with them just isn't hard. Radios and speakers? Got plenty of time to deal with them, I know where each one is, no worries. Same with traps, the few times I get into DM without Light Step anyway. The Cloud has just never really been a bother, other than to deter me from going to look everywhere for things which honestly kinda saddens me. It's more annoying rather than more difficult. And it's odd, but to me I feel like DM should be rather challenging. It just doesn't feel the same from when I first played it.

 

So, are there any mods that do raise the difficulty there, and if not could someone make one please? More than just buffing up the enemies or something like that...something that will make me have to use my head more in the Sierra Madre, be more patient, actually feel like maybe this is a survival horror sort of thing. The most I have found when looking myself is something to raise the amount of spawns for Ghost People, which does toughen things (I hope, haven't tried just yet), but at the same time it isn't enough. Please, someone help with this? Thank you for any advice or work or anything not rude really in advance. :happy:

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Grab Increased Wasteland Spawns and set it to max.

 

Oh, and then prepare to die. A lot.

Well I'll look at it but I'm really only looking for a way to make Dead Money Harder, because I feel like it should be and that it would be more interesting. But the main game, I feel fine with that difficulty. Beyond that though, I already mentioned using a mod to increase spawns of Ghost People in the Madre. The again I haven't actually tested that one yet so I'm not sure how good it is...

 

But really more enemies doesn't really make it more interesting. If the challenge for a survival area is just more enemies, well it kinda feels bland. :-/

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I'm working on a mod for Dead Money, all the Dlcs actually, but dead money specifically at the moment. Alot of the stuff will be able to be controlled with the MCM menu, including cloud damage. There's also gas masks to counter the cloud, tho the filters to repair them are rare, and the cloud damages the mask instead of your health. Also included are controllable increased spawns for each DLC. A new enemy that can survive the cloud, and two stronger tiers of ghost people. Unique variants of the bear trap claw, holorifle, and auto machine gun. Ability to hack the vending machines with a new hacking method, new dungeons, ability to return. I'd love to hear any other ideas you'd have specifically for improving the mod. Complete list of current completed stuff for dead money:

Dead Money:
Enemy Changes:
Optional increased spawns, can be controlled with the MCM menu.
11 New shades of ghost, simple color variants that add some depth.
2 New tiers of ghosts, Ghost Reavers and Ghost Busters.
Vending Machine Changes:
Added ability to hack the vending machines, unlocking the 20% employee discount. Hacking is different from the vanilla hacking, a description will be given when activating your first vending machine.
Added option to return all items at once.
Steady was available from the vending machine, didn't make sense since it was created post war, but I didn't want to remove it because it's extremely useful. So I replaced it with a new chem Pentazemin, which has the same effects, but also slightly increases sneak and unarmed. It is, respectivly slightly more expensive then steady was.
Added some missing return options for prewar items.
Added Gambling option, can bet 10, 100, or 1000 chips for a random number from 1 to 2x the bet. This is seperate from the actual SM gambling limit, so won't effect that.
Added some sub menus
Fixed some busted conditions.
Added new recipes
Added back in cut content: "Suprise" recipes at the vending machine, these recipes give out random items, some worth less then what you spend, but you have a chance to get something better.
Equipment Changes:
Improved Automatic Rifle statistics slightly (Spread, fire rate)
Gas bombs can now be shot to detonate.
Added some recipes for cosmic knives and knife spears I felt were missing, as well as ability to craft and upgrade throwing knife spears.
Changed **** "clean" to "clean" ****, was a strange naming convention.
Added 3 mods to all the weapons, utilizing assets from WMX as well as some of my own work.
Added unique variants for some of the weapons. Each has custom textures and/or models.
Added in cut content Starlet's Hand Wraps. Gave them a custom texture and effect. As well as fixing the stats, also has 3 mods.
Added in cut content Starlet's wig. Just a wig. Fixed mesh issues on it.
The AOE Damage done by holorifles will now scale with your energy weapons skill.
Fixed holorifle reinforced parts only improving condition by 1.5.
Added helm for Assassin suit.
Gameplay Changes:
Added starterbox, with 6 options to choose from, each comes with a unique texture/mesh/enchanted armor and gas mask, the rest of the load out is pretty varied.
Damage done by the cloud will now be based of your poison resist, you can't negate the damage, but you can reduce the impact.
Added Gas Masks that allow you to walk in clouds undamaged. The cloud will eventually destroy the gas mask's filter, in which case you'll need to find another gas mask or some new filters to repair it.
Added Chaff Grenades to counter radios/speaker, once it detonates it spreads tiny aluminum particles across a wide area, interfering with any radio signals for a full minute. After Dead Money they can be used to mess with robot ai, the effects are random, 25% chance to frenzy, 25% to stop combat and become unaggresive, and 6% chance to be killed. The remaing percent will cause minimal damage. Chaff grenades are very rare, but can be purchased from the vending machine once you have found the recipe.
Can return to the Sierra Madre
Misc changes:
Changed mass of Gold Ingots so they can be manipulated with the <Grab> Key
Fixes all known Dead Money bugs.
Increased max gambling limit to 25000 from 10000. Also allowed the ban to be lifted after 7 days.
Removes the need to gamble at Sierra Madre to see the recipe for return vouchers. (previously if you didn't get blocked out from gambling, the recipe to redeem wouldn't appear, rendering the vouchers delivered to the drop box useless)
I'll make a compiled list of the other features I have planned and yet to complete.
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I will say that this mod you're working on sounds great. It adds a lot to DM it seems, and I especially like the sound of the new dungeons an a new type of cloud creature. Very exciting. :-) I will admit though that as fun as this mod sounds (and trust me, I would easily want to download and use this), most of it's things are geared towards making the DLC easier. The hacking dispensers, weapons to limit the radios and speakers, gas mask...then again those last 2 aren't so bad. The Chaff grenades sounds like something that would take some planning and using well to make use of which is just the kind of thing I'm looking for in a way, and the gas mask having a limit? Definitely something I'd like for being able to explore more without being overpowered. But like I said, I'm looking to try to make the area tougher, since the way I play it now it just isn't as interesting as it used to be. Although, your mod idea here seems to definitely make things more interesting.

 

I almost feel though like I'm complaining over little though, since a lot has changed this playthrough compared to previous ones. I'm using the Energy Shields mod, so that might make the Ghost People more of a challenging threat, I don't know. Also playing with a mod that makes stimpacks give hunger, thirst, and tiredness when used so that may change things as well. I'm just going with what I've experienced in past playthoughs. The Sierra Madre is a unique area, with a fun horror vibe to it and that proclaims to be challenging. And the first time it kinda was. But I learned too easily how to permanently stop the Ghost People, all the traps are pretty basic and not surprising, the holograms feel easy to avoid except in the last part of the DLC, the Cloud was only annoying in that it kept me from exploring more of this interesting place, and even supplies weren't really a big deal since the chips were everywhere, as well as things to trade in for more. I was even stumbling across too much water to hold onto at some points. I put in a mod to reduce items in the place, but I can't say that it made a big difference. Just saying, I love being an unstoppable powerhouse in most of the game, but in the Sierra Madre I'd much rather be struggling to survive, without just lots of enemies since enemies aren't the only real threat in that place. This DLC is the only place I truly want to worry about a challenge, and it just hasn't been that way in awhile. :-(

 

So I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. Just things to make any of that mentioned above more of a challenge, tougher, without it being a boring change. Still though, a lot of things about this mod of yours here I really like, and when it's done I will happily download and tell you what I think. I've seen a couple of your other mods before, so I know you do good work. :-D Anything to improve it, I dunno. Is there a way, maybe using MCM or something, to customize random item drops? Maybe raise the survival challenge in this place, or for others who want to make it easier. I guess I'd also ask where the starting box would be placed, since there is a certain home base mod for DM I was looking at maybe trying out this time because it sounded interesting, I don't remember what it was called. Courier 6 something. But yeah if the two mods clashed I'd go with yours, but be sad to lose what sounds like an interesting home. And if the mod can do anything to add or change up traps in the place, or maybe just have some dangerous things like that in the other dungeons you mentioned, that would be awesome and unique. Still, just hearing about this kinda mod with a lot of changes to a place that deserves the attention (and not even getting to the idea of you doing this to other DLC, woohoo!) has me pretty excited. I'd love to help in such a project if possible, but I've only started learning anything about modding recently, so I don't really know what I could do. But thanks for mentioning this here, and hope I didn't ramble too much. ^_^;

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O man weird I typed a long ol response and its not here...

 

Ya I've started on it, tho my mod doesn't necessarily enhance story, though since it covers the DLC anyways, may as well. I'd be happy to work with you, did you have anything specific in mind for LR? I haven't really done much except maybe 7 interior and some slight edits. Completed changes for LR so far:

Added Flare Gun to Firebox loot
Added Scorched Sierra Power Helmet
Made dialogue with Ulyses use quest progression instead of faction reputation
Made duster faction specific.(texture/name)
Flashbangs no longer restore the fatigue they damage at the end of the effect.
Riot gear helmets have been switched to medium, so they are matched with the armor.
It's been awhile since I player LR and HH, so my ideas for them are sparse. Before I really start working on the expansion for either of those, I need to go back and play them. I'm almost finished with the Dead Money section, for now, so may do LR next, though I have a massive list of ideas for OWB.
As for Dead Money:
I agree with you that the radios and cloud are more of an annoyance then a real threat, anytime i hear a radio I quicksave, find the thing and disable it, check for loot etc, then reload with all that info and know just what to do. With the Chaff grenades and gas masks gives lore friendly counter in the hopes that players can avoid this method.
The starter box shouldn't feel unbalanced, the loot it comes with is pretty light, and varies greatly based on choice. The armors are all pretty mid strength, about the DT of the SM Armor, in most cases less.
As for hacking the vending machines, its a new hacking system, you have to pass 3 checks, and only have 1 chance. Basically wrote a few scripts to randomly generate patterns of numbers, and display them dynamically, you have to find the missing number. So the messagebox will contain something like:
qld,iyhn fwafdsa10gfafd aiu-oxn000u ifml20gapqj vydgiejf nm-sh40g weashli50gfxzkj
Where you have to find the value of 000.
So it's a bit more difficult, or easier for some people then regular hacking.
As for making it more difficult, there are several new ideas that have come to mind:
The DLC has seperate containers for everything, I could set them up to have a modiafiable chance for loot, so the player could choose, say 15% for ammo, 20% chance for meds, etc. Not sure how many options I'll be able to make, there are a lot of containers so it's a lot to edit.
It's possible to start a "walker" quest with the DLC, which can remove items placed in cells, again I could set this up so the player could control the chance for specific items to stay.
Could make it so that the cloud has a lingering poison damage. This would only occur if the player didnt have a gas mask on in the cloud.
Been toying with the idea of making some new traps, now seems like a good time. I could also increase the presence of traps in the areas, just adding more. Along with some hidden ones. What sort of traps do you think ghost people would make. Fireaxe trap would be pretty sweet I think. Booby trapped containers would be plausible too.
My mod will also contain a Home base, I'll be making one for the other DLCs as well, except OWB, I'll prolly just add some enhancements to the sink.
A "Legendary" Ghost, one that spawns randomly or is placed, not sure where I'd put him.
Also, just realize that if you take the breathing effect off of Ghosts, they look straight ahead instead of down, so gonna be making some of these variants, cuz it looks alot creepier.
I'm gonna copy a script from my monster mod, that scales up the enemies stats, based on a player control scaled, this is different then how the game handles changing difficultly, so you could mess with the 2 settings to find a good balance for you.
Also looking to add another new enemy, not sure what type I want to go with. The other new one is a mutated dog thats adapted to the cloud, and has the same breath effect as ghost, only red so it looks like they are exhaling cloud. Also modified mesh, texture, and skeleton.
So not sure what the new creature should be, with an animal and a humanoid already. Maybe a rare critter based on the deathclaw skelly...
Anyways, that's all for tonight :P Off to sleep
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As for Dead Money:

I agree with you that the radios and cloud are more of an annoyance then a real threat, anytime i hear a radio I quicksave, find the thing and disable it, check for loot etc, then reload with all that info and know just what to do. With the Chaff grenades and gas masks gives lore friendly counter in the hopes that players can avoid this method.
The starter box shouldn't feel unbalanced, the loot it comes with is pretty light, and varies greatly based on choice. The armors are all pretty mid strength, about the DT of the SM Armor, in most cases less.
As for hacking the vending machines, its a new hacking system, you have to pass 3 checks, and only have 1 chance. Basically wrote a few scripts to randomly generate patterns of numbers, and display them dynamically, you have to find the missing number. So the messagebox will contain something like:
qld,iyhn fwafdsa10gfafd aiu-oxn000u ifml20gapqj vydgiejf nm-sh40g weashli50gfxzkj
Where you have to find the value of 000.
So it's a bit more difficult, or easier for some people then regular hacking.
As for making it more difficult, there are several new ideas that have come to mind:
The DLC has seperate containers for everything, I could set them up to have a modiafiable chance for loot, so the player could choose, say 15% for ammo, 20% chance for meds, etc. Not sure how many options I'll be able to make, there are a lot of containers so it's a lot to edit.
It's possible to start a "walker" quest with the DLC, which can remove items placed in cells, again I could set this up so the player could control the chance for specific items to stay.
Could make it so that the cloud has a lingering poison damage. This would only occur if the player didnt have a gas mask on in the cloud.
Been toying with the idea of making some new traps, now seems like a good time. I could also increase the presence of traps in the areas, just adding more. Along with some hidden ones. What sort of traps do you think ghost people would make. Fireaxe trap would be pretty sweet I think. Booby trapped containers would be plausible too.
My mod will also contain a Home base, I'll be making one for the other DLCs as well, except OWB, I'll prolly just add some enhancements to the sink.
A "Legendary" Ghost, one that spawns randomly or is placed, not sure where I'd put him.
Also, just realize that if you take the breathing effect off of Ghosts, they look straight ahead instead of down, so gonna be making some of these variants, cuz it looks a lot creepier.
I'm gonna copy a script from my monster mod, that scales up the enemies stats, based on a player control scaled, this is different then how the game handles changing difficultly, so you could mess with the 2 settings to find a good balance for you.
Also looking to add another new enemy, not sure what type I want to go with. The other new one is a mutated dog thats adapted to the cloud, and has the same breath effect as ghost, only red so it looks like they are exhaling cloud. Also modified mesh, texture, and skeleton.
So not sure what the new creature should be, with an animal and a humanoid already. Maybe a rare critter based on the deathclaw skelly...
Anyways, that's all for tonight :tongue: Off to sleep

 

 

Yeah exactly. 2 of the main threats in this DLC just aren't very threatening. I do like your more player-friendly ideas to deal with those though. :smile: As far as a starter box, I love the idea of having some choice in those starter items. So a huge thumbs up here!

 

This hacking sounds very complex, I have no clue how that would work. But that's fine, I'm eager to try to learn for this.

 

I admit, I have no experience with modding like that, so I don't know how difficult it might be. If I'm asking crazy things, I apologize. But both of those do sound like good ideas. I feel like there is too much loot for a survival adventure. Is there any way that isn't too difficult to reduce how many casino chips there are, like would that loot-reducing mod work on those?

 

Poison damage from the Cloud would certainly make it more of an interesting threat. If that's possible I think that would be a wonderful idea. :yes: And of course the gas mask keeps that fair.

 

Hmm types of traps. Well a lot of them are big on those spears, maybe a trap that could shoot a spear, or if possible a volley of them, when triggered? Or how about a gas bomb trap, instead of just the grenade bouquets? Again though, I don't know what the extents of modding are, so if I am suggesting anything too out there then I apologize. :blush: A fireaxe trap of some sort would be cool, maybe tied to a door so when it's opened the axe swings at the character's face, something of that nature.

 

Ah so this mod will have bases? Heh interesting. Maybe I shouldn't download that other home mod yet. :laugh: But this all sounds so cool that I'm glad I haven't done a lot of the DLCs with this character.

 

Oh dear a Legendary Ghost? :ohmy: That's terrifying. Can it be done? There isn't a lot of area to the Sierra Madre, so wherever you put it, it likely would have to be encountered. Random spawn may work better, if it's possible to make sure that not a ton of them spawn at once or something like that. But it's like the idea of a vicious, powerful predator appearing out of nowhere in a place like this. The variant Ghosts and the cloud hound :laugh: sound like nice additions. Certainly gonna keep people like me on their toes. As for something new...well OWB changed up radscorpions, maybe there's another insect sorta thing you could alter? Cloud-based ant, mantis, radroach...any kind of bug can be creepy, and then made tougher and creepier.

 

All of this seems really exciting and cool, and that's just discussing things from one DLC. I wish I could offer to help with this, seriously, but I gotta learn quite a bit before I'd be useful. Maybe in a while when I learn more I'll be able to offer some assistance. This seems to be a mod that's worth all the attention and effort it can be given. I'd say I hope the sleeping goes well, but it's now 12 hours since then. Doesn't really apply anymore. :sweat:

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Just had a pretty good idea (IMO) for a new enemy, a floating robot, that's basically neutral towards the player, however it has a holoemitter attached to it that projects the Casino Holograms. So the deadly deadly hologram would be after you, but you'd have to take out the robot to disable it.

 

For the hacking, if you look closely there are a series of numbers within all the gibberish, to hack you just have to figure out which number in the pattern is missing.

 

Cloud poison would be extremely easy to do, though I'd probably make an anti toxin craftable from the cloud residue.

 

Ah the spears, pretty good idea, maybe something like the Skyrim spear traps where they shoot out of hole in the wall. The baseball trap could probably be rigged to fire spears, I'd just have to create some device that would shoot a spear. Maybe like a big rigged crossbow shape or something. And ya, the fire axe trap is just that, you trigger it, and the axe swings from around the corner, or above. Was also toying with the idea of making "steel" (ie, non-rusted) bear traps that do extra damage, but that would suggest the ghost people have knowledge of metallurgy or at least the competence to clean their gear, so I'll probably scrap that idea, at least for dead money. They also have the demo charges, which have exactly 1 more damage then a frag mine, so I may knock those up a bit to make them more deadly.

 

Making the loot rarer wouldn't be too difficult, I'd have to look at the leveled lists to know for sure, but should be pretty easy to customize. As for making the chips rarer I don't really see the point, but it wouldn't be to hard to do while I'm doing everything else, so I'll add that to the list.

 

The only extents of modding is how much knowledge you have and the work your willing to put in :P most things can be done, but are extremely tedious, even pointless to some modders. I think the tedious things can make a mod great, like making 11 ghost colors was tedious, but the final product will be worth it I feel. I can blender, nifskope, and gimp now, I didn't know anything about any of it when I started, so just stick with it :D

 

The Legendary Ghost would be a 1 time encounter, so if it's set to spawn randomly, it would spawn that one time then remain in that area. I'm probably going to put it in the cave area I'm making tho, as it's the place all the gold fell to after the vault was destroyed.

 

A cloud based mantis sounds pretty cool actually, I'd prolly give it some stealth camo effect while it's standing still, or try to color it like the cloud, something that the player would accidentally stumble upon.

 

You're helping more then you realize, bouncing ideas around is really good for the mod process, especially when I don't really have a clear idea of what I'm going for, just want it better.

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Just had a pretty good idea (IMO) for a new enemy, a floating robot, that's basically neutral towards the player, however it has a holoemitter attached to it that projects the Casino Holograms. So the deadly deadly hologram would be after you, but you'd have to take out the robot to disable it.

 

For the hacking, if you look closely there are a series of numbers within all the gibberish, to hack you just have to figure out which number in the pattern is missing.

 

Cloud poison would be extremely easy to do, though I'd probably make an anti toxin craftable from the cloud residue.

 

Ah the spears, pretty good idea, maybe something like the Skyrim spear traps where they shoot out of hole in the wall. The baseball trap could probably be rigged to fire spears, I'd just have to create some device that would shoot a spear. Maybe like a big rigged crossbow shape or something. And ya, the fire axe trap is just that, you trigger it, and the axe swings from around the corner, or above. Was also toying with the idea of making "steel" (ie, non-rusted) bear traps that do extra damage, but that would suggest the ghost people have knowledge of metallurgy or at least the competence to clean their gear, so I'll probably scrap that idea, at least for dead money. They also have the demo charges, which have exactly 1 more damage then a frag mine, so I may knock those up a bit to make them more deadly.

 

Making the loot rarer wouldn't be too difficult, I'd have to look at the leveled lists to know for sure, but should be pretty easy to customize. As for making the chips rarer I don't really see the point, but it wouldn't be to hard to do while I'm doing everything else, so I'll add that to the list.

 

The only extents of modding is how much knowledge you have and the work your willing to put in :tongue: most things can be done, but are extremely tedious, even pointless to some modders. I think the tedious things can make a mod great, like making 11 ghost colors was tedious, but the final product will be worth it I feel. I can blender, nifskope, and gimp now, I didn't know anything about any of it when I started, so just stick with it :D

 

The Legendary Ghost would be a 1 time encounter, so if it's set to spawn randomly, it would spawn that one time then remain in that area. I'm probably going to put it in the cave area I'm making tho, as it's the place all the gold fell to after the vault was destroyed.

 

A cloud based mantis sounds pretty cool actually, I'd prolly give it some stealth camo effect while it's standing still, or try to color it like the cloud, something that the player would accidentally stumble upon.

 

You're helping more then you realize, bouncing ideas around is really good for the mod process, especially when I don't really have a clear idea of what I'm going for, just want it better.

 

Hah now that would make me afraid of the holorgrams! XD This is a great idea. Absolutely awesome.

 

Oh I get it now! Okay more interesting than normal hacking at least. I played a quest mod recently that had a similar sort of thing for one of the puzzles, I thought it went well.

 

I leave it to you if you think an antitoxin is needed. I guess it would be fair, but I just in general love the idea of the lethality of a poison effect from the Cloud. There's already the gas mask for preventing poison, so an antitoxin would just be another way, something instead of the gas mask to use maybe. Though iwould suggest that the craft skill for that (Medicine or Science?) be fairly high at least, considering how unique the Cloud is.

 

That spear idea sounds like it could work. Probably the baseball machine idea more than the hole in the wall of Skyrim. Also I don't remember, but do the characters take damage from falling objects, like rocks from the Elder Scrolls games? Because that might be another trap idea, something on the ceiling or in an archway that the Ghost People set up to drop heavy things. And the cleaner, stronger bear traps might not work for the Ghosts, that's true. But there could maybe be a recipe for a clean bear-trap fist, since the PC would potentially be smart enough to do that. It would make sense if you plan for a trap like that in future DLC.

 

My main thing with the chips is that even when there is rarer loot in the DLC, I usually can easily get enough chips to handle food, medicine, and weapon repair extremely easily. So for a survival thing, less money until the end might help out. Other than that though rarer loot should be enough to make things tougher. I don't know why I'm so interested in Dead Money being so tough. :sweat: But you're also adding things to help too, so I think the limited loot chances would be balanced out.

 

I certainly will! There are some amazing mods out there and a lot of people have enjoyed them. I'd like to be able to take the strange little ideas I come up with and show them to others. Like I said, a lot to learn, but I will learn it. :happy:

 

Ooh very interesting. :yes: I think that would work nicely. All beware the Legendary Ghost!

 

Those would definitely help, nothing to ramp up terror like sudden enemy attacks. The second idea may work better. My experience is that it was harder to see the camouflaged spore carriers than it was to locate a stealthed nightkin.

 

Well I am glad to help you think things through. :happy: I really appreciate the work people like you put into these mods to make them great and fun. I'm glad to help with something.

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