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Uploading converted Fallout 3 mods without permission


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#31
lastofthelight

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I think this whole argument is rather 'artsy' and juvenile. Authors don't have some magical rights to their mods; they put them out there and then they are in the public domain, graphics aside. This wasn't "their" fallout to begin with, they are modifying a game without explicit permission from Bethesda in ways the developers never intended. Likewise, people should be free to mod mods in ways the authors never intended. Certainly, some people would be offended by that, but thats only because they have an unrealistic sense of ownership of something that was never theirs to begin with. This is also what rating systems are for. A bad mod will not get good ratings and will be ignored. Now, I have no plans to do this, and this goes against popular cultural sentiment in the modding 'community' but speaking morally, the sentiment is incorrect.

Edited by lastofthelight, 25 October 2010 - 06:24 PM.


#32
bben46

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We are not talking about taking a mod and making changes to create a new mod. Just about porting it as it is from FO3 to NV. Every mod uses resources from Beth and many use resources from other mods. Most modders don't mind as long as the mod is different from what they produced, AND you give credit. Beth encouraged us to make new content by releasing the GECK to begin with. What I am seeing is people in too big of a rush to allow a modder enough time to make their own port, and then thinking they are now a mod author because they were able to port a mod.

There is no problem with porting a mod you like for your own use. Only in porting, then publishing the mod at TheNexus as your own work. Instead of copying someone elses work why not make your own mod? It's a lot more difficult than just porting someone elses work.

Not everyone has the game yet. The release date for Asia is November 4th - over a week away. In order to keep the load down on their servers Steam and Beth staggered the release in different locals over at least 2 weeks. So our Japanese, Korean, Chinese and other Asian modders haven't even seen the game yet.

Then, many of our better modders are not full time gamers, but actually have a life outside of games. They are university students who have classes, exams and I hope a social life, or working people who have a job and maybe a family to support. They may not have but a few hours a week to put into modding. So be a little patient.

#33
Madae

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@holbrook

There is an "author" and "uploader" for a reason. I put TKone's name in the author slot, and my in uploader, and I also said at the start of the description and at the end that it was not my work. I didn't take credit for anything.

What you're doing is lumping everyone it one group and saying "Yeah, these people are stealing work", when in fact I, and probably others, didn't steal anything.

If someone takes a mod from Fallout 3, converts it, but then basically says "Yeah, I made this", puts his name for author, doesn't mention anywhere who actually made it - then I would agree with you that that would be cause for a ban.

I also wasn't ashamed of what I had done. I had given due credit to TK many times, in the discussion, description, author - it was his, I just found out later that I did the work he couldn't do. Whether or not I had his permission before is beside the point. He came here and thanked me himself, so how I went about it is moot at this point.

#34
Kendo 2

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I think this whole argument is rather 'artsy' and juvenile. Authors don't have some magical rights to their mods; they put them out there and then they are in the public domain, graphics aside. This wasn't "their" fallout to begin with, they are modifying a game without explicit permission from Bethesda in ways the developers never intended. Likewise, people should be free to mod mods in ways the authors never intended. Certainly, some people would be offended by that, but thats only because they have an unrealistic sense of ownership of something that was never theirs to begin with. This is also what rating systems are for. A bad mod will not get good ratings and will be ignored. Now, I have no plans to do this, and this goes against popular cultural sentiment in the modding 'community' but speaking morally, the sentiment is incorrect.


No offense, but you are wrong. 'Modders don't have magical rights to their mods.' Pop over to the banned threads and took a look. Yes, we do have magical rights. Your logic typifies the reasons the Asian modding community is closed to most outsiders and why modders like me have to go out of the way to keep yahoos from boosting our added content. This is also why the very best mods are traded privately and NOT uploaded. The 'I can do what I want' sentiment keeps goods mods off-line and players and downloaders are screwing themselves out of quality content.

I think people have the order of things mixed up. Downloaders are NOT doing modders a favor by using their content. It is the modders doing the favors and they get licked in the teeth by idiots using their work in ways it wasn't intended or by outright content theft.

ASK PERMISSION TO USE THEIR WORK. END OF FREAK'N STORY.

edit: or don't ask and risk being banned

Edited by Kendo 2, 25 October 2010 - 08:07 PM.


#35
JimboUK

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I think this whole argument is rather 'artsy' and juvenile. Authors don't have some magical rights to their mods; they put them out there and then they are in the public domain, graphics aside. This wasn't "their" fallout to begin with, they are modifying a game without explicit permission from Bethesda in ways the developers never intended. Likewise, people should be free to mod mods in ways the authors never intended. Certainly, some people would be offended by that, but thats only because they have an unrealistic sense of ownership of something that was never theirs to begin with. This is also what rating systems are for. A bad mod will not get good ratings and will be ignored. Now, I have no plans to do this, and this goes against popular cultural sentiment in the modding 'community' but speaking morally, the sentiment is incorrect.


They do have rights over their creations, the textures and models are their work, they are nothing to with Bethesda. Some people seem to be under the impression that anything shared freely becomes public property, it does not. Seriously how hard is to ask before reuploading someone elses work?

#36
tactcom

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The game has just been released. It's not like we are 6 months since release and the original author have not shown up.

Give modders the time to play the game and then put hand on their mods to convert them. Don't steal this to them.

I know it sucks to wait but i respect their work, also cause i want them to work more :-)

If within 6 months a mod has not been converted by the original author, then i think it's fair to evaluate a solution: by that time this matter won't be no more a drama i think.





#37
ladydesire

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@tactcom: in 6 months, the rule to ask permission before posting someone else's mod will still exist; if it hasn't been changed in over 7-8 years, I doubt it will suddenly disappear. I didn't start working on the New Vegas version of RR Companions Vault until I had the permission of the original mod creator, so it's not hard to ask for and get it; people just need to learn to be patient when doing so.

#38
OiramX5

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ladydesire
But and about the file who the author dont have say(Or forget) nothing about have permitted or dont the edit and distributed files?
Like one mod of clothe I have see in the site in saturday and sunday is already deleted ,and the uploader have leave clear than original uploader have be disappeared and no one know what have happen with he ,and if I'm not wrong, the uploader said is more than one year he was gone(Maybe died ,who knows).
What do in this situation?
Delete and banned the uploader?
Why? The original author dont say anything about distribution or edit.
(Well ,the file have been deleted ,now the uploader banned I dont know)

Edited by OiramX5, 25 October 2010 - 09:14 PM.


#39
ladydesire

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ladydesire
But and about the file who the author dont have say(Or forget) nothing about have permitted or dont the edit and distributed files?


The site rules are clear on this; if you do not have the original mod maker's permission to post it, you cannot do so here.

Like one mod of clothe I have see in the site in saturday and sunday is already deleted ,and the uploader have leave clear than original uploader have be disappeared and no one know what have happen with he ,and if I'm not wrong, the uploader said is more than one year he was gone(Maybe died ,who knows).
What do in this situation?
Delete and banned the uploader?
Why? The original author dont say anything about distribution or edit.
(Well ,the file have been deleted ,now the uploader banned I dont know)


Site rules state that if permission is not given to repost a converted mod, you should not do so. If you cannot prove you have permission, they can ban you. It's as simple as that.
:wallbash:

#40
Kendo 2

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The original author dont say anything about distribution or edit.


If the ReadMe doesn't state 'open source' or 'permission required' always assume you CANNOT upload the files (including reworked esps). Just because an author didn't state you can't use the work in your own, doesn't mean YOU CAN either.

edit: beat me to it. :teehee:




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