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On the internet, trolls, and finally creating an effective rating syst


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#51
GvazE

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I like how you mention you want TES to have a rating system to Amazon's yet theirs is still rather flawed.

People downvote a game because it has drm they don't like, rather than the game itself. It's really hilarious and frustrating when you have to sift through thousands of anti-drm posts that cover nothing of the game to find out that 2/5 is actually a 4/5 game.

As for ratings, I'm of the opinion that terrible mods, including but not limited to sex mods and things outside of the lore of the games being covered are totally unnecessary and if people as a whole find them offensive or the effort put into the mod is extremely poor, those people should have their mod downvoted into oblivion.

As for "trolls" granted some people's comments are pretty lame, but if comments in general are all mentioning the same thing, perhaps you (a modder in general) should look at what you're making and revevaluate it or fix the problems the community puts forth.

edit: this is in comparison to a modder getting all holier than thou and putting himself on a pedistal saying "well if you don't like it, don't download it", which is completely beside the point.

Edited by GvazE, 19 November 2010 - 06:42 PM.


#52
LadyMilla

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As for ratings, I'm of the opinion that terrible mods, including but not limited to sex mods and things outside of the lore of the games being covered are totally unnecessary and if people as a whole find them offensive or the effort put into the mod is extremely poor, those people should have their mod downvoted into oblivion.

edit: this is in comparison to a modder getting all holier than thou and putting himself on a pedistal saying "well if you don't like it, don't download it", which is completely beside the point.


So... it is right that you can tell a modder what fits or does not fit in with the game and the lore, what is useful and useless, but when they say this mod was not meant for you then it is wrong and you call them "holier than thou".

/sigh

Obviously, the Terms of Service is also holier-than-thou: "If you disagree with the content of a file on the site then do not post. Simply ignore the file and move on."

#53
Leyic

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@GvazE

How is the "don't download what you don't like" argument beside the point? Nexus is a large community catering to various sorts of players and modders. There are bound to be quality mods that simply aren't to someone's taste. What isn't necessary to you may be considered essential by someone else. If we start down rating mods that we know we won't like because they're not the sort of thing we like, we dilute the system and skew it to being more of a "popular acceptability" contest.

Generally speaking, this is what concerns me about the new system: Yes, there should be a way to acknowledge modders that have put a lot of effort into their mods, but it should not come at the expense of burying simple yet enjoyable mods at the same ratings level as larger but flawed mods.

#54
XTR3M368

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I think that mods downvoted by others just because it isn't lore or not "their personal tastes" is a HORRIBLE idea. That would fit the very definition of trolling and the "bans and strikes" thread is full of people banned for doing just that in the comments of the mod in question. The policy of the Nexus has been "If you don't like it and don't have constructive criticism, don't comment". People should be able to see quite easily by the description if they might be interested in a mod or not.

Why write a review on a mod you would never use? I think the community would much better be served by people writing reviews of mods they actually use. If you would never use a mod due to "not being lore" or whatever, then that review would be skewed by opinion that the person who might LIKE that kind of mod won't benefit from in the slightest. It would be like talking out of the orifice you sit on. Without using and experiencing the mod, how can the subsequent review be worth reading?

It will lead to the same kind of problem the comments have where you have to scroll through pages of stuff before you find an answer that helps you. Bad reviews by people that post said bad review based on that it is a non-lore mod and they only like lore mods would be useless clutter IMO. If you have played these games at all, just looking at the mod will tell you lore or non-lore. (I was just using lore as an example...it works with "sexy" stuff or other types of mods as well)

In conclusion to use an analogy..
Would you accept or want the views of a person rating a Ford Mustang if they had never even owned a Mustang, don't want to drive a Mustang, only seen the Mustang on the lot as they passed, hate Fords, and/or is a "Chevy man"? How would a review like that be anything other than trolling?

#55
JimboUK

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I think that mods downvoted by others just because it isn't lore or not "their personal tastes" is a HORRIBLE idea. That would fit the very definition of trolling and the "bans and strikes" thread is full of people banned for doing just that in the comments of the mod in question. The policy of the Nexus has been "If you don't like it and don't have constructive criticism, don't comment". People should be able to see quite easily by the description if they might be interested in a mod or not.

Why write a review on a mod you would never use? I think the community would much better be served by people writing reviews of mods they actually use. If you would never use a mod due to "not being lore" or whatever, then that review would be skewed by opinion that the person who might LIKE that kind of mod won't benefit from in the slightest. It would be like talking out of the orifice you sit on. Without using and experiencing the mod, how can the subsequent review be worth reading?

It will lead to the same kind of problem the comments have where you have to scroll through pages of stuff before you find an answer that helps you. Bad reviews by people that post said bad review based on that it is a non-lore mod and they only like lore mods would be useless clutter IMO. If you have played these games at all, just looking at the mod will tell you lore or non-lore. (I was just using lore as an example...it works with "sexy" stuff or other types of mods as well)

In conclusion to use an analogy..
Would you accept or want the views of a person rating a Ford Mustang if they had never even owned a Mustang, don't want to drive a Mustang, only seen the Mustang on the lot as they passed, hate Fords, and/or is a "Chevy man"? How would a review like that be anything other than trolling?


Hopefully this will deal with the "This sucks cos it ain't lore" type idiocy.....

A review with more positive ratings will "float" to the top of the reviews page as it is clearly a respected view, a review that has a negative review from its peers will sink to the bottom of the page, or perhaps be removed completely.



Already file comments that like this are sent into oblivion with all the thumbs down they get. I hope staff are given the means to remove the reviewing rights of those who prove they can't be trusted to use those rights sensibly.

#56
Lisnpuppy

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I really like these ideas. I admit that I am a sporadic (though trying to improve) endorser of files. Having some kind of minimum word count may help weed out a great many trolls, though I am sure some will still be determined enough to write a diatribe on how much they think a file sucks. ha ha

I worry that a minimum post count would perhaps make folks post fluff in order to rate files. I think this community does a great job of self-policing as it were. Perhaps a note if a person meets the requirements but has many "thumbs down" on their comments or former ratings or what have you...that they be excluded or be put on a probationary period? The same with anyone who rates files. If they aren't living up to the expectations that they be reviewed and their rating privileges taken away for a time?

I have no desire to see you, Dark0ne...have to micromanage this site. I have noted the increased banning and I expressed my worries regarding the chat making a great more work on you all that what was foreseen. Perhaps you could also think of a group of moderators....that would be like a secondary level...not have the full powers on the regular moderators...but that would mind only chat...or only image share....or something of that nature. So folks that maybe would get overwhelmed handling the full moderator duties can still help if they are capable....but only be responsible for a section or some other named specific duty? This perhaps would free you all up for the more complicated tasks.

The work that you all do here never ceases to amaze me. Never have I asked for help and not received it. I have never seen a serious issue gone unaddressed and the professionalism of you all is to be commended. I spend time here BECAUSE I do not have to shift through the quagmire of crap that is on other sites. I believe the high standards should continue to be upheld and free-flowing mature debate on topics continue.

This community is awesome in a number of ways...and that in my humble opinion is largely due to the running of the site. Thank you all very much.

#57
HellKnightX88

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Yeah but nexus is more like the opposite: a lot of good stuff with the odd mod thrown in there. Besides, the notions of "good", "useful", "bad" etc. are highly subjective.

Edited by }{ellKnight, 19 November 2010 - 08:43 PM.


#58
midtek

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While most downloaders are silent and others are generous to give endorsements saying "cool, thanks! :)" and even put some good reviews, there have been certains like "This mod is great BUT--' then utter their own problems or how it doesn't fit their preferences.

To be specific, many are just technical issues the mod is not responsible like CTDs due to their bad ordering, or issuing game-balance when others are using so fine. Those can be stressful to modders when it comes with rating system, or even worse, with reviews that make everyones the critics.

I heard one of the finest modders has shut down his mod today because someone just doesn't stop bitching about how the mod is off-balanced terribly, so just saying.

#59
Thandal

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You totally didn't get what Dark0ne was saying. The numerical rating should NOT be based on how well it works or how well it does what it claims to, but how good it is.


Oh, I totally did "get" what he meant, and I'm sorry that you didn't get what I meant. The "works / works well" was a subjective shorthand (and could be replaced by other terms) for whatever criteria the Reviewer believed applicable to the mod in question.

I wasn't trying to indicate that that was the only, or even the best specific element to judge. I was presenting a "TYPE" of numerical system, and providing examples of the kinds of things that might garner a specific rating, for a specific mod, within that system.

Feel free to replace "works" with whatever verb or adverbial clause you think would be more appropriate. I can quickly conceive of several, depending on the purpose of a mod. After all, a facemorph has different criteria from a bug fix, doesn't it? Yet in both cases, one mod could be judged "better" than another.

After all, the whole point of a "Review" (rather than a strictly numeric score based on inflexible critiera) is to allow for subjectivity on the part of the Reviewer. I was only trying to emphasize that this loses its value if there's too much emphasis on the fine levels of gradation.

"Great / Good / Ok / Poor / Bad", with SOME kind of explanation. That's enough for the current purpose.

#60
urbex

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I really agree with everything that was said in your post, Dark.
I wish your moderators did as well, though. The whole "Opinions are trolling." and "THE INTERNET IS SERIOUS *bleeping*ING BUSINESS" feelings they have, while keeping the forums in line, are very excessive at times. I mean, the stuff that's banned for over the nexus wouldn't even warrant a strike on most other forums.

Edited by DarkeWolf, 20 November 2010 - 03:35 AM.





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