26 replies to this topic

[BigBizkit]

Due to the recent manifestations of good will and appreciation towards mod authors and the Nexus community in general, I thought it might be a good opportunity to address one thing in particular: endorsements.

 

Did you ever notice how even the most popular, and widely used mods on the Nexus have terrible download-to-endorsement rates? Here's some examples:

 

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#1 Mod of all times - SkyUI

4,5 Million unique downloads - 274.500 endorsements ~ 6% endorsement rate

 

 

popular Spell mod - Apocalypse

1,2 Millon unique downloads - 45.000 endorsements ~ 3% endorsement rate

 

 

DLC sized mod - Falskaar

888,000 unique downloads - 59.000 endorsements ~ 6,6% endorsement rate

 

 

player home by the "go-to-girl" for house mods - Elianora - Serenity

34,000 unique downloads - 1.900 endorsements ~ 6,8% endorsement rate

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Don't tell me only 5% of people ended up liking those mods.

 

Now, before you go all "modding shouldn't be about the endorsements" speech, realize that I agree, I do. But with all the talk of showing more support and appreciation towards authors going around, I have to address this issue.

 

Unlike donations, endorsements don't cost money, you do not need a bank account, you do not need a paypal account, you do not need to enter your personal information. All you need to do is to take out one second of your time and click the like button.

 

I have been told that endorsement rates have risen since the button is more "in your face" with the reminder. I know they did. They have risen to and underwhelming 6% for outstanding uber mods.

 

I think the endorsements are as "in your face" as they could be and this should not change. I think this is more on the side of the individual people to start changing their ways.

 

 

I started making mods for personal use back in Morrowind, long before I knew about the Nexus. I have made many mods for Morrowind and Skyrim. Yet I have only released two so far. And when I did release my first one here on the Nexus in February of this year, I realized how much effort it takes from having a perfectly functioning mod for yourself to making it ready for shipment. There are numerous steps involved in getting the mod ready for the enjoyment of others. The testing, packaging, designing the mod page, the description, walkthroughs, different versions, compatibility patches, and then the support of the mod. All this, all those mod authors out there do solely for your/our benefit. They could keep the mod for themselves but instead put in days/weeks/months for the benefit of the community.

 

I do not want to add the "they do it for free" part, and keep the money out of it. But they do put in all this extra effort yet only five percent of people put in the time to give their "thumbs up". The 5% rate is the average for outstanding mods btw.

 

If you want to be all "look at this guy begging for endorsements", then ok. Go ahead, and unendorse my mods if you endorsed before and I offended you. But please take the time in the future and give a thumbs up to other mods you like. Yeah, people do not mod for endorsements but people also do not live to receive appreciation from others, yet still it feels good when you do.

 

I for one also enjoy reading comments a lot.

 

 

TL;DR:

• Even the most popular mods have an average 5% endorsements rate though definately more people actually like the mods
• I know modding is not about endorsements
• Endorsement reminders should not be even more in your face
• the community voiced the will to show more support/appreciation, clicking a button to have an author know you like their work should not be too much to ask for

 

 

[M48A5]

I know from experience that one of the causes of the lack of endorsements is the waiting period before you can endorse a mod.  There have been quite a few times I have downloaded a mod or two and having to wait to endorse it, I have gone about my business and just forgot.  I find the reminders helpful, but they only appear when you download another mod.  For the older mod users, a better reminder system would be appreciated.

15 min wait time doesn't make sense to me tbh, you cannot even test a mod properly in that time unless its a tiny mod.

Also for example, I gave permission to a Chinese website to completely upload my mod Tel Nalta II there because they were unable to download it from Nexus due to either language difference, Nexus being slow as hell on the other side of the world, or simply China blocking outside content.

There is almost no way for those people that are downloading my mod there to come to Nexus and endorse my mod, first they would have to create an actual account on this website, then they need to speak English to even navigate my mod page, then they would also have to download a file from there, and lastly they would have to wait 15 min before they can even click that button.

 

Go try and explain that system in a foreign language, way too confusing...

 

I know this is an extreme example, but its just showing how many hoops people have to jump through just to leave a simple endorsement.

[bben46]

The wait is for those people that create sock puppets that endorse instantly, then create a new sock puppet to endorse instantly, then ... We have caught several mod authors using this cute trick to increase their 'popularity'. Once upon a time we had a thumbs up/down method - that was abused so badly the thumbs down was removed. Before that we had an open rate on a 1 to 10 scale with no download or wait required - An analysis showed that 80% of the ratings were 10, with many comments that said they rated before downloading based on the pics and nothing else. Then we came up with they had to post a review to rate the mod. One example of a rating from that era, "I gave this mod a 10 because it has boobies, I would download it, but I don't have the game."   Yup, that is a real helpful review all right.

 

Then another 15% were 1, with most saying they wouldn't download it because of something about the mod they didn't like, (No boobs?)  or whining that they couldn't get it to work without asking for any help ( this was Pre NMM)  - leaving about 5% that gave a useful rating.

 

With the current endorsement system we started with a 3 hour delay, that was reduced to one hour, and now 15 minutes. HOW can you possibly download a mod, install it in your game and give it a FAIR test, then exit the game and rate it in just 15 minutes? The answer is you CAN'T! 

[Grasmann]

Yes the main reason is the wait time.

 

There are many mods that are known to work, so you don't have to test them anymore.

When I'm installing skyrim and make it ready to go I usually download a lot of mods at once.

As soon as I have them on my computer I figure out how to install them one by one.

Although Mod Organizer makes all that a lot easier.

 

Not being able to endorse right when I start the download is a bit of a problem.

Because when I downloaded a ton of mods I'm so busy with installing them and running loot and stuff that I simply forget it.

Not to mention that I have to open each page once again just to endorse the mod.

 

To be honest whenever I tried to endorse a mod I got that annoying message that I'm still within the wait time.

So eventually I just gave it up completely.

Usually I'm done with skyrim after some days and when I install and make it ready again and need all the mods again that will just repeat.

 

Suggestion:

Obvisouly in the database of nexus there's information saved for each user / mod combination to save a timestamp for the download to make the wait time possible.

Add another column to store data how often that user downloaded the mod and if the number of downloads is bigger than 1 let people endorse immediately.

Maybe add a check if the different downloads are at least a month apart or something to prevent endorsement abuse.

Now I don't know how the database currently handles that timestamp entries and when they are deleted.

But maybe something like that can be done.

Edited by Grasmann, 29 April 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[Hyacathusarullistad]

I download mods in spurts when I start a new playthrough, and it's definitely easy to simply forget to return to the mod page and endorse a mod you enjoyed when you download a dozen of them in a day. But removing the wait period is a bad idea, for the reasons Ben's already outlined. And tinkering with it to make it needlessly complicated or more flexible seems unnecessary.

 

Instead, what about a system that reminds people to come back and endorse a mod? Say, 48 hours after they download a mod, they get a notification on the Nexus linking them back to the mod page to leave an endorsement if they liked it. The time could be configurable, too, for those that would prefer to be reminded as soon as the wait period is over instead of days later.

Edited by Hyacathusarullistad, 29 April 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[BigBizkit]

I do not think that the flaw is in the system for the exact reasons bben listed. There is no feasible fool proof system.

[jones177]

I think endorsements are very important & I do make an effort to give them.

 

 

 

The last game I modded was MS Train Simulator. TrainSim.Com had no endorsement system. I got lots of downloads, little feedback. Ironically the only real positive feedback I got was when I was asked to join a popular payware team.

 

 

 

After recent events I have come to the conclusion that those of use that can afford it should donate as well. This art form needs Patrons.

 

 

 

 

Later

[Draugas]

I'll say honestly I never used the Endorsement system. Not because of laziness or whatever, but because I honestly didn't know it was important.

 

When I look at mods to download, I look at total downloads, what the mod does, how well written the mod notes were, has it been updated recently, the general topics of the comments and the general demeanor of the mod author.

 

I had pretty much blanked out endorsements because it was just a button click.

 

I'll make sure I make use of it now. Sorry for the inattention.

[notmyhome]

I'm an absolute collector, if I see a mod that might come in handy I download it instantly and click the "track" button to download any future versions too.

Problem is I don't have the time to install them right away. Pretty sure some of the mods I downloaded when I got the game about two years ago have never been installed.

 

I'm very often pretty sure they're good, quality mods. But I don't endorse them until I've tried them out personally.

 

So yea, that's why I've got about 2k mod files on my hard drive but only gave ~400 endorsements.