Weights and values rebalance, need a little help with ingot models

[TheYogi]

So, I have this obsession that has plagued me since the Halcyon Days of pen and papper RPGs of my long gone youth - I have to have realistic prices and weights in my games. I'll pour over historical price data, gold/silver price ratios, density tables, numismatics... I know, I should seek help. Which is exactly what this is! :smile:

 

So, the first thing that caught my eye in Skyrim are those colossal metal ingots that weigh next to nothing and, in many cases, far less than the objects created from them.

 

I have determined that one unit of weight in Skyrim can be approximated to 100 g (1/10 of kg). Although not all weights in the game are consistent with such a scale, many are.

 

By simple reckoning, I consider that the Skyrim ingots are roughly equal in size to a "Good Delivery" gold bar, the weight of which is 12,4 kg. If so, the weight of the gold ingot in Skyrim would be 124. Working from there with metal density tables, we'd get steel ingots of the same dimensions of roughly 5 kg (weight 51) and so on.

 

So far so good. However, this is not practical, because if you want to make for example a sword, you'd only need perhaps 1,5 kg of steel (assuming some is lost in the process) to make a single-handed sword.

The recipies would have to be changed so that from 1 steel ingot you get 2 swords (or a crapload of daggers).

 

So basically, what I would need help with is to reduce the ingot models in size to maybe 1/4 of the current.

 

I'm totally inept at graphical editing - I could probably learn to use Blender or some other tool, but since this is about the only thing I really need done to assuage my obsession, perhaps there is someone skilled enough reading this, that producing a reduced size ingot model is mere childs play for him or her.

 

Anyway, I would be much obliged for any such help!

Edited May 24, 2015 by TheYogi

[gezegond]

Nifskope is a specialized skyrim 3D model viewer and editor. You can use it to change mesh sizes rather easily.

[TheYogi]

OK, thanks!

 

Then I only need to learn how to unpack nif files from BSA and I'll be good to go, I guess!

[gezegond]

BSA Unpacker is a simple BSA unpacker (obviously). If you want more features you can also try BSAopt.

[TheYogi]

Used BSA, exported the nif and succesfully shrunk a gold ingot! Thank you very much!

 

Only problem now is that the ingot is floating over the ground - it would seem the ingot only looks smaller but the game still handles it as if it was its original size?

 

I assume there is some other property of the mesh I need to edit, but I'm not understanding the explanations I found when googling (I wish to plead incompetence, Sir!)

 

What should I do now?

[gezegond]

iirc there is a collision mesh attached to the 3D model that also has to be resized. However I haven't done that before so if you can't find it wait for input from other people.

[nhackett]

don't forget to apply your transformations. as for collision on ingots... it does not seem as though nifskope 2.0 can transform that particular type of collision object.

 

Edit: if you right click on the nitrishape, mouse-over havok, and click on create convex shape... you can fix the collision object to your new transformation.

Edited May 24, 2015 by nhackett

[TheYogi]

Thanks all for your help, finally solved this (probably not the best way) in this way:

 

1) Klicked on 5bhk CollisionObject

2) In Block Details at the bottom of the screen, clicked the blue Arrow link after the line "Body"

3) Still in Block Details, klicked the blue Arrow link after the line "Shape"

4) Still in Block Details, edited the value after the line radius from 0.0500 to 0.0250 (had previously reduced the size of the model by half).

5) Saved.

 

Worked like a charm, my new small ingots (1/4 of the original size) now lie flush on the ground, no floating whatsoever.

 

Probably this workaround worked because the collision mesh (Boulder somehting) is extremly simple and just scaling it down worked well with this simple geometrical shape. Will try your way to nhackett, sounds easier!

 

The weights rebalance, as mentioned, assumes that (based on visual reckoning) the original ingot was roughly equal to a "good delivery" gold ingot of 12,4 kg. Thus, the shrunken 1/4 volume gold ingot will weigh roughly 3 kg = 30 Skyrim units of weight. A steel ingot, based on relative densities, will weigh 1,2 kg = 12 Skyrim units of weight. I have worked out approximations of densities of the Tamrielic materials backwards from the weights of similar-sized items.

 

I've also placing a weight on coins of 3 g. This is light, compared to a Roman Solidus of 4,5 g or the even larger earlier Aureus, but I like the fact that it will mean the value of a gold ingot is exactly 1000 gold. In any case, the value of a Skyrim gold coin is vastly lower than a Solidus, gold must be common as muck in Tamriel. :smile: Silver I have set to a ratio of 1/10 of gold, which is high - in Roman times the ratio was something like 1/20, and in the middle ages at times as low as 1/100, with ratios today somewhere in between.

 

The fact that gold now encumbers you means you need to find a place to hoard your treasure when it grows. I like that. :smile:

Edited May 25, 2015 by TheYogi

[nhackett]

the volume of 1000 gold coins would exceed the volume of your gold ingot, no?

[TheYogi]

Perhaps... most historical gold coins are 4-7 g of weight. Perhaps a gold coin in the game just would have to weigh more than 3 g, given the apparent size, although it might be rather thin?

 

On the other hand, it's not glaringly obvious that it would be so. Not in the way it was obvious than an ingot of that size would have to weigh enormously more than ca 1/10 of a kg.

 

Perhaps I could reszie the ingot a little less, reducing it to around 5 kg (that would mean scaling down to roughly 63% of original size). Then gold coins could weigh their typical 5 g. But then the steel ingot would be heavier too.

 

Or simply live with the fact that you do not get 1000 gold for an ingot but rather 600. Unless I've gravely misjudged original size, that amount of coin should fit inside the ingot.