Difference between constructive criticism and trolling.

[antonkr]

I have seen a lot of people being banned for trolling and saying negative things about the mod. How would I say that I do not like a mod without a fear of being banned? I mean its a bit confusing.

Would saying: "I really didn't like the mod because textures weren't good and it made my game crash a lot." be considered trolling?

[myrmaad]

N-n-n-n-no. You can't say "your textures aren't good".

 

You can say, "your textures are very high res, and my framerates took a hit, do you think you can compress them without an obvious loss of quality?"

 

You could say, "I prefer the vanilla textures over these." But in that case why bother to even post?

 

Or you could say, "I really wanted to use this mod but after I installed it my game crashed. Has anyone else reported that problem?"

 

 

Why must you go on to a modders' thread and say "I don't like this mod" ? Can you explain the need to do that? Why not just move on without any words at all? Why must everything require an announcement or a pronouncement?

[antonkr]

I'd rather have someone complain about the problem for my mods then never know what I need to improve and work on. I don't see what would be wrong with saying "your textures aren't too good but thank you for the mod anyway" Reason for having to say my opinion is so the person who made the mod be able to improve upon it.

If you are a writer you don't get on a reviewer saying that criticizes your work, you read what he has to say and try and make it better next time...

[LHammonds]

I tend to agree with myr on this.

 

Saying "the textures aren't good" gives absolutely nothing for you as a modder to improve upon. It is just criticism. How can you as a texture artist improve with a statement that says the textures do not look good? This is obviously very subjective and beauty is in the eye of the beholder but if you are going to make a comment about it, you really need to give some kind of indication as to how the author can improve...thus the "Constructive" part of "Constructive Criticism."

 

Mentioning that the game crashes is definitely something that can be mentioned and obviously, not everyone posting such a comment can say what caused it...which may be due to installing it incorrectly, or another mod that caused the problem because they installed 10 mods at the same time but think it was yours that caused it, etc.

 

Many of the bans you see on mod comments are due to letting their emotions get the better of them and they simply bash the mod for what might have been their own mistake or go really overboard and personally insult the author (or any other member) which we do not tolerate here whatsoever.

 

Here is an excerpt from the rules:

 

Constructive criticism is voicing your concern about an idea or implementation of a mod as well as providing a possible solution.

 

This requires both parts:

 

• Constructive = Providing a solution
  
• Criticism = Voicing concern

Constructive criticism is NOT directed at any person or group of people. Any comments that are directed at people can fall under vigilantism, flaming and trolling.

 

Trolling is...

 

Deliberately attempting to goad people into a "flame war" (or, simply put, a "female dog fest") by posting disparaging remarks or comments that you know will incite a negative or nasty response.

 

EDIT #1:

 

Let's have a look at what some of these last people banned for trolling / flaming the mod comments are saying:

 

aztroboy

F*cking retarded idiots. Why can't you useless shitheads actually make some mods worth downloading?

 

johnydeath13

What the f*?k type of moron are you? This defeats the whole DLC! The point of it is to survive in a hostile enviroment, with a mad man telling you what to do and death around every corner! Jesus Christ, you are missing the point! Therfor, i hate you, and anyone who endorses.

 

wikingraider

I see english is not your native tongue.

 

You can get offended now but that would not change the fact, that this is just some low level unfinished work. Has nothing to do with the Hub.

 

EDIT #2:

 

I stopped looking for trolls after going through 5 pages of mainly spambot and piracy bans. But of those that I found above, is it really that hard to see why they were banned and how trolling is different than constructive criticism?

 

LHammonds

[antonkr]

Well I have to agree with textures being more of an art sort of thing. But what about saying you didn't like the mod and giving suggestions on making it better?

[buddah]

Perhaps a polite pm expressing your concerns, usually taken better when it is a private conversation rather than a public debate.

[dunmermaiden]

Oops, didn't see this was a question for moderaters and admins, sorry. :blush:

 

Feel free to delete my post.

 

 

Personally I think if one approaches the modder like this:

 

Dear ( insert name )

 

I really liked the ( find something you liked about it perhaps what made you download it to begin with ) of your mod. However I have a little problem since installing it, ( write problem without putting blame or being insulting ). It's such a shame I cannot play this mod because of ( mention problem ) because I really liked the ( mention what you liked again ).

 

- Now if you do know how to mod you could add in a brief tutorial on how to make the mod work better with explanations why it would work better.

 

Then end with a encouraging truthful comment such as "I think your idea for this mod was great, and I hope you will continue with it.

 

 

 

There is being blunt and brutally honest, but people have real feelings and real emotions and nobody has the right to tread all over them and hurt them. If you cannot find something you liked, then I think, and this is my personal opinion, then if you don't have anything nice to say it is better to say nothing at all. Why make someone feel bad for trying to be nice and sharing their work?

Edited March 11, 2011 by dunmermaiden

[JimboUK]

Trolling: OMG this mod is ****.

Constructive: This shows promise, maybe you could <insert ideas here>

 

Trolling: WTF? She looks like an alien!!11

Constructive: I like <insert something positive here> but I think her eyes could do with being a little smaller.

 

Trolling: You ****, this mods crashes my game.

Constructive: I'm having a problem with this, when I <insert description of when the crash occurs and any other useful info> the game crashes.

 

Trolling: The textures are ****.

Constructive: I think the textures could do with a little more detail.

 

Trolling: I hate lore breaking mods like this, they ruin the game.

Constructive: <Use the back button because no one cares what you think>

[bben46]

Use the Dale Carnegie approach (How to win friends and influence people)

 

Start with a complement - this sets the mood that this is not a personal attack on the recipient or their work.

 

Then state your problem, but politely - I had a problem with (whatever) and this is what I saw. Is there anything I can do to get it to (whatever). Note the I. not you oughta do but what can I do. This tells the modder that what you want is a little help getting the mod to do what you want - not "Fix your freakin mod!!"

 

End with another complement. - and thank them for posting their mod.

 

What this does is puts the recipient in a good mood and much more likely to help you.

 

Smilies can help too. :thumbsup:

[LHammonds]

Thanks for mentioning Dale Carnegie's book, that was what I was trying to think of when I was reading dunmermaiden's last post. It is a great book to read and I highly recommend it. You might initially think it is about "how to manipulate" people but if you truly understand it, it is about how to treat and interact with people.

 

It really is not very hard to find ways to give sincere compliments to people but it is easy to spot when you don't mean it. The easiest recognition is the fact that you found a mod interesting enough to read, download and install out of the thousands available.

 

Did I mention that I recommend to everyone to read that book? I should probably include that link on as many posts as I do the Oblivion Mods FAQ. :laugh: