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Mage/Templar choice not grey


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#11
pavy

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Even though most of the quests do have evil mages pulling strings..the problem is like LadyMilla said...the templars are fanatics, from what i saw and understood they do not really protect mages from themselfs or people from mages, they just fear their power and thats why they lock them up, using the phrase "protect" as an excuse.

No wonder that even the good mages turn to evil and get possessed when all they hear is them being the monsters and that they arent normal people and they need to be locked up...fear is present in everyone and it just needs a little triger to turn them this way.

Its funny to see how templars are actually the real cause for mages going insane, scenario that would defenatly turn out this way in real world.

You see someone having power and they need to be locked, but when you have the power its a god's gift, in other words there is jelousy mixed with fear, that creates a nice chaos, in wich any word containing "protect"or "for the good" is just another excuse.

#12
LadyMilla

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The thing about mages getting 'branded' just because templars don't like them? Again, I don't see how that was true...


Early in the game, even before Meredith laid her hand on the idol, you get a few hints as to what was going on in the Gallows (as far as I remember it was during Anders' personal quest where you were tasked to save his friend but I may be wrong). It is revealed that the mages are effectively locked up in their cells, denied protection in court and are made tranquil for the slightest offenses. That was before the idol was brought into play.

#13
McRib

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The thing about mages getting 'branded' just because templars don't like them? Again, I don't see how that was true...


Early in the game, even before Meredith laid her hand on the idol, you get a few hints as to what was going on in the Gallows (as far as I remember it was during Anders' personal quest where you were tasked to save his friend but I may be wrong). It is revealed that the mages are effectively locked up in their cells, denied protection in court and are made tranquil for the slightest offenses. That was before the idol was brought into play.


It looked to me like a lot of the stuff that was said to be happening in the circle in act one was just rumors. I only remember running into a total of two tranquil mages throughout the entire game and Anders mentions later that it was Ser Alrik who performed the rite on Karl. So it seems like just a handful of bad templars abusing their power.

That said, if you side with Meredith through act three you do get a little bit of insight into why she feels how she does about the mages so it wasn't all the idol.

#14
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I see where The Witcher's gray area storytelling rubbed off on Dragon Age 2, and I like it :thumbsup: . I sided with the mages on my 1st char I felt so sad for the mages. 2nd char's neutral and stopped Merryl from fixing the mirror, and often had Fenris in my party.

I do wonder how Tevinter keeps their Abominations and Blood Magic 'accidents' in check or lack thereof. Do they leave this things to the Templars?

#15
LadyMilla

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I do wonder how Tevinter keeps their Abominations and Blood Magic 'accidents' in check or lack thereof. Do they leave this things to the Templars?


I doubt it. I think the Black Divine and the Tevinter Chantry are subordinated - maybe informally, if not officially - to the ruling magisters, and Templars do not have much say in daily matters - otherwise duels between mages in the streets as Feynriel reported in his letter would not be permitted.

If brokenergy is still around, maybe she can provide us with a few tidbits about Tevinter, she seems to have an extensive knowledge of all things Dragon Age. :)

#16
Draakon

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I myself sided with the Mages as well, but not because of the events in Dragon Age 2, but the events in the lore itself over the time. We all know that the Circles and Templars were made after the First Blight(or somewhere around there). Now, here where my moral kicks in. Just because those men who entered the Golden City were Mages doesn't mean all of them are. And that's what the Chantry/Templars think. The templars/chantry actions over the time were the cause of hatred against them by the mages. If they would just act as mere guards, then everything would be okay. But they did more then that.

Just my small point of view.

Edited by Draakon, 25 March 2011 - 10:39 AM.


#17
evilbeefjerky

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I doubt it. I think the Black Divine and the Tevinter Chantry are subordinated - maybe informally, if not officially - to the ruling magisters, and Templars do not have much say in daily matters - otherwise duels between mages in the streets as Feynriel reported in his letter would not be permitted.


The Black Divine is also First Enchanter and a Magister. So what's good for the Magisters is good for the Tevinter Chantry. I'd imagine since Templars are useful in shutting down mages, they're used to counter abominations but have no authority of their own. But then it may just be that the Magisters clean up their own messes.

#18
Archontic

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Does anyone else agree with me that siding with the mages is the good choice, and that siding with the templars is the evil choice? Yeah, there are evil blood mages, but that's a vast minority.


Cullen, except for his fear of mages, was a good man. He was kind, sympathetic, generous, and open to the Champion's suggestion that mages and Templars attempt to reach a middle-ground. The Templars in Lothering were more than willing to die to protect the people. Ser Otto wanted to purge the evil spirits in the Denerim alienage. Greagor was stern, but ultimately wanted to save the tower; he was also a close friend/rival of Irving's. Ser Henric and Ser Donall went on a quest to save Eamon by finding the Ashes of Andraste. Both Donall and Bryant put their faith in the Wardens against Loghain's lies. Aveline's testimonial for Wesley and his kindness, affection, and willingness to sacrifice himself for his wife are all worth mentioning. Thrask was constantly seeking nonviolent solutions to apostates. Emeric also wanted to help mages, and dedicated himself to solving the murders. Cullen and the Templars even turn against Meredith's insanity.

The Maleficar make up a much larger number of mages than you're giving credit for. There's a good number of them, including well-meaning idiot assassins like Jowan. Orsino resorted to blood magic and willingly became an abomination; by his own admission he also tolerated Quentin just to save face. Two of the mages Meredith sends you after are psychopaths, one of them slaughtering his wife. Anders blew up the chantry, killing innocents and benefiting nobody.

It's gray because in theory both were good, but they had corruption so deep within the ranks that the line between right and wrong was blurred, even more so after Anders kills the Grand Cleric (which is what finally pushed Meredith to take matters into her own hands. Siding with the Templars isn't the same as siding with Meredith given the amount of pressure Anders put on you to join one of two violent extremes.

Edited by Archontic, 26 March 2011 - 01:04 AM.


#19
LadyMilla

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Cullen, except for his fear of mages, was a good man. He was kind, sympathetic, generous, and open to the Champion's suggestion that mages and Templars attempt to reach a middle-ground.


Which is a bit out of character, considering how vehemently he tried to convince Greagor in DA: O that all mages had to be killed at the end of the Broken Circle quest. A good read on Cullen: Cullen in Dragon Age Wiki

#20
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Which is a bit out of character, considering how vehemently he tried to convince Greagor in DA: O that all mages had to be killed at the end of the Broken Circle quest. A good read on Cullen: Cullen in Dragon Age Wiki

Hawke undeniably influenced him on this, it seemed odd to me too when Cullen suddenly flipped from hating mages to looking for a middle ground. But time does change everything. Of course none of that mattered in the end. :laugh:




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