Lore Questions - East Empire Company

[Jinzor]

I hope this is the right place to start this conversation (it may involve spoilers to people who have not played through some parts of the TES series), but I was thinking of starting up a mod which has some connection, story-wise, to the EEC. However, I wanted to get some clarification on a few things:

 

1. Are the EEC still an independent company propped up by the Empire, or have they now been absorbed by the Empire completely due to the geopolitical situation?

 

2. If they are still independent, who is the current leader of the EEC? If there is no known leader by name, could this be evidence that the EEC have now been absorbed into the Empire (i.e. the Emperor is the leader of the EEC)?

 

3. Since the Empire prop up the EEC and are on very friendly terms with one another, does this mean that both are seen as one and the same to the people of Skyrim (or the whole of Tamriel)? If they are, then why do the Stormcloaks in Windhelm even permit an EEC trading post at the docks to exist? Surely they'd consider it a breeding ground for Imperial spies and want to prevent all trade with the Empire any way they could? Could there be an explanation for this (in the lore, not just "bah, the developers weren't properly thinking about it" (it may be true, but that doesn't help me for my mod's story))?

 

If I think up of any more questions, I'll make another post, but those are the big ones I've been pondering on.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Jinzor

[kimmera]

This is definitely the right place :)

 

There doesn't seem to be any good information as to who owns it, but since it is obviously a take on the Dutch East India Company and/or British East India Company, it is almost certainly a privately owned operation, possibly granted a trade monopoly by an Imperial charter.

 

While it would make sense for them to be pressed into military service there is no evidence of any such measures.

 

Based on Morrowwind they are likely often seen as having a stronger connection than necessarily exists. Hard to tell though since there are no details regarding ownership. Maybe they really are literally a branch of the Imperial government.

[Jinzor]

If they are a branch of the Imperial government, that would definitely help my story. I am planning to do a Mercantile-style mod for Skyrim. Basically it'd be like "Adura's Merchant Mod", where you sell items to increase a reputation bar, but then leads you into a new Merchant Guild, where you compete against other members of the guild and also allows you to purchase a permit to own production property at a census office (like "Skyrim Tycoon", but with a bit more feeling of ownership).

 

However, a part of the quest-line I plan to make, if you decide to transition from being a common Trader to a property-owning Merchant, is the option to pledge your loyalty to an existing faction if you do not wish to go it alone. The two obvious sides, since there's a war going on, would be the Imperials vs Nords (Stormcloaks). I was wondering whether or not I should basically make the Imperial-favoured trading faction the EEC, rather than make two separate Imperial-sided factions (it wouldn't make sense for the Imperial government to fight the EEC). It'd provide a good opportunity to finally show who the leader of the EEC is in Skyrim, and add another layer of depth to the civil war story (how the war has had an effect on trade). When you get too much money, this would provide a good money-sink to maintain gold's value to the player. Who you pledge loyalty to would depend on which hold you purchase/build your production property in. If you decide to purchase/build in Imperial territory (e.g. Haafingar), you will be approached by a representative of the Empire and forced to pay a weekly tax (earnings would be stored in a safe on site and collected automatically if the gold is there) and give you the extra option to pledge loyalty to the Imperial crown (for free mid-leveled guards, who protect against the weaker saboteurs/thieves). If you don't pay the weekly tax more than once, your asset(s) will be liquidated and handed to the side's most favoured trading faction who would be, in this case, the EEC. If you don't pledge, you don't get the extra benefit of protection.

 

So, this would be lore-friendly for the EEC faction I have planned?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Jinzor

[CaptainPatch]

The EEC is obviously modeled after the Real World East India Company, which for its era probably THE most powerful corporate "shadow empire" in the world. It not only had a fleet of merchant vessels that spanned the world, it also had its own Navy and Army. For Army, think of the Blackwater "independent contractors" that were so active in Iraq. The Navy frigates were used primarily for anti-piracy campaigns and convoy escort duty. The EIC had several major cities entirely under its control and subject to its corporate Law. It was quite active in India where it literally carved out an empire that was not reduced until the English finally had enough military present to bring all of India into the British Commonwealth. (That is, unofficial government displaced by official government.)

 

So, given the parallel, the EEC is an Empire-based corporation, but its operations are international in scope. So officially, the EEC is "neutral" and therefore not drawn into any international conflicts. "We're mostly Imperials, but we don't take sides."

[Jinzor]

The EEC is obviously modeled after the Real World East India Company, which for its era probably THE most powerful corporate "shadow empire" in the world. It not only had a fleet of merchant vessels that spanned the world, it also had its own Navy and Army. For Army, think of the Blackwater "independent contractors" that were so active in Iraq. The Navy frigates were used primarily for anti-piracy campaigns and convoy escort duty. The EIC had several major cities entirely under its control and subject to its corporate Law. It was quite active in India where it literally carved out an empire that was not reduced until the English finally had enough military present to bring all of India into the British Commonwealth. (That is, unofficial government displaced by official government.)

 

So, given the parallel, the EEC is an Empire-based corporation, but its operations are international in scope. So officially, the EEC is "neutral" and therefore not drawn into any international conflicts. "We're mostly Imperials, but we don't take sides."

 

Even though they are officially neutral, wouldn't the Stormcloaks, who are passionately against/paranoid towards foreigners (common folk thought that even the Dunmer could be Imperial spies), see an Imperial-based corporation, run mostly by Imperials, funded by the Emperor himself, as a threat to them? If so, why even allow an EEC trading post in their capital to exist? Granted, they were suffering from local pirates before you go and help them in the quest "Rise in the East", but after that nobody seems to care about them being around (the guards even thank you for it).

Edited September 12, 2015 by Jinzor

[kimmera]

 

 

Even though they are officially neutral, wouldn't the Stormcloaks, who are passionately against/paranoid towards foreigners (common folk thought that even the Dunmer could be Imperial spies), see an Imperial-based corporation, run mostly by Imperials, funded by the Emperor himself, as a threat to them? If so, why even allow an EEC trading post in their capital to exist? Granted, they were suffering from local pirates before you go and help them in the quest "Rise in the East", but after that nobody seems to care about them being around (the guards even thank you for it).

 

 

If Ulfric had a problem with the East Empire company (whether due to connection with the Empire real or perceived or even some other reason) wouldn't he have shut them out of Windhelm? Seized their assets? Even if there is a connection, Ulfric may not even be aware of it. Again, there is nothing currently telling us who the owner at the top is...

[Jinzor]

 

 

 

Even though they are officially neutral, wouldn't the Stormcloaks, who are passionately against/paranoid towards foreigners (common folk thought that even the Dunmer could be Imperial spies), see an Imperial-based corporation, run mostly by Imperials, funded by the Emperor himself, as a threat to them? If so, why even allow an EEC trading post in their capital to exist? Granted, they were suffering from local pirates before you go and help them in the quest "Rise in the East", but after that nobody seems to care about them being around (the guards even thank you for it).

 

 

If Ulfric had a problem with the East Empire company (whether due to connection with the Empire real or perceived or even some other reason) wouldn't he have shut them out of Windhelm? Seized their assets?

 

 

Yes, and I'm wondering why he hasn't done that. Perhaps I could find a way to explain that the pirates, who were harassing the Windhelm EEC trading post, were secretly being funded by Ulfric. Why? He could have been doing this in an effort to encourage the EEC to willfully leave Windhelm, rather than unhonourably cast them out, for fear of appearing as a tyrant in the eyes of his subjects?

Edited September 12, 2015 by Jinzor

[kimmera]

In the middle of a civil war, it makes no sense that he would rely on pirates. More likely he either doesn't see any connection between the EEC and the Empire or he is simply an opportunist and sees their trade as more valuable than the risks. Or both.

[CaptainPatch]

Even though they are officially neutral, wouldn't the Stormcloaks, who are passionately against/paranoid towards foreigners (common folk thought that even the Dunmer could be Imperial spies), see an Imperial-based corporation, run mostly by Imperials, funded by the Emperor himself, as a threat to them? If so, why even allow an EEC trading post in their capital to exist? Granted, they were suffering from local pirates before you go and help them in the quest "Rise in the East", but after that nobody seems to care about them being around (the guards even thank you for it).

Having a major transportation hub in your city is simply far too valuable to shut it down just on suspicion. A probable first step would be to require any EEC ships entering or leaving any Stormcloak port to have an official "commissar" on board to assure there was no hanky-panky going on. That most probably make the EEC conclude that it would violate their neutrality stance to have a civil war contestant from either side on board as a permanent passenger. (And probably interfere with any contraband smuggling EEC captains might be conducting.) More likely would be periodic inspections of the EEC offices and warehouse, along with inspections of inbound and outbound EEC vessels for the same reason.

[kimmera]

A point of evidence on the side of neutrality is that they don't get mentioned as an asset from the Imperial side of the war. If they were really Empire affiliated, why wouldn't a second wave of troops be brought in by water?

 

(The fact that they aren't part of the civil war, frankly, is likely just a cost issue on the part of the Devs. It *would* have a lot of good mod potential though, definitely, with them playing either side, both, or possibly fighting to stay neutral with both sides demanding their aid)