Major progression overhaul (planning)

[raney]

We're nowhere near the point where a system like this can be implemented, but I'd like lay out the groundwork for a system I have in mind. Mostly so that when the necessary tools are available, we can have a running start. Also, I'd like to get a sense of which of these features are desirable, and which should be avoided or tweaked.

 

Here are the ideas I've had. Bear in mind, a lot of these are solely to make you feel less empowered from the start. I want to have to work really hard to become King or Queen of the Wasteland, which entails more reward for having high attributes, and penalty for having low. Having an attribute at 10 should mean more than just "Now you can pick a perk that maybe you didn't even care about."

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Perks aren't available until you have (at least) two points invested in an attribute.

I don't like the fact that the current system pretty much gives you a trophy just for showing up. By that, I mean I can have a 1 in Luck and can obtain and rank up Fortune Finder, to the point where enemies explode bottlecaps upon defeat. I like the idea of being penalized for not investing in certain skills--if I have 1 in strength, I should be weak (i.e. no bonus to unarmed combat available).

 

Perks don't increase in rank unless you meet attribute requirements.

So let's say I have 2 in strength. Eventually, I'll be capable of dealing twice as much melee damage and knocking enemies' heads off once that perk hits max rank. And remember, a 2 in strength was considered a 'Wet Noodle' in New Vegas. Perhaps instead of solely having level requirements, the ability to rank up a perk should also depend on how many points are in your SPECIAL (So maybe I'm not able to knock off someone's head until my Strength is 10--so that having a strength of 10 is actually more meaningful).

Perk benefits scale with the amount of points in each attribute.

This is sort of an alternative to the last point. Maybe I can rank up my Big Leagues perk to maximum with only 2 in Strength, but the attack bonus I'm given is 'some value multiplied by Strength': A +20% bonus to melee or unarmed damage is the maximum value you can achieve at rank 1, assuming you have a 10 in Strength, whereas a 5 in Strength might get you only a +10% bonus (Doesn't have to be linear scaling).

 

SPECIAL training becomes harder the higher you go.

Using strength training as an example yet again. It would work like this: when I choose to level up my Strength, it counts as choosing one perk. But as strength gets higher, you have to dedicate more and more in order to increase. Maybe by 6 or 7, it takes two levels to get your Strength to 1, and maybe 3 by the time you hit 9. You'd go from 'Strength Training 1/3' to 'Strength Training 2/3', and then you get your full point the next time you choose it.

 

You have to earn your SPECIAL.

This one goes a bit off the deep end, and is not recommended for the feint of heart. The way I rationalize it is: you've just been unfrozen after having not used your body in over 200 years--you don't have all of your faculties. You start the game out with 1 in every stat, after leaving the vault. Vault Tec Guy never makes you assign all your points at once. Instead, for the next 21 levels, you are rewarded with one SPECIAL point. To go even further in the direction of immersion, I'd make it so you have to get a full night's sleep before you can claim your SPECIAL reward.

 

With this one, there almost has to be a rebalance in how much EXP you need in order to level up early on in the game.

 

Perception slows time.

If there's any possible way to implement this, I'd change the speed at which VATS slows time to be dependent on your Perception. This would have to be done in a way that isn't too dramatic, but can make a difference the higher you go. Maybe a 1 in Perception would correspond to 1/4 time, a 5 or 6 would be as fast as it is in Vanilla, and a 10 would be as close to freezing time as you can get.

 

Let's add some things from New Vegas.

Strength requirement for certain weapons. I'd also like to see a return of equipment degredation. It doesn't have to be as extreme as it was in New Vegas, where it breaks completely and can't be used anymore--but I'd like to see something like accuracy and damage penalties at low condition.

 

A hardcore mode is almost a given. Other hardcore mods I've played always make it a point to penalize immediately after hunger reaches a certain point. Sure, there's a warning stage, and when you hear it you think "Oh great, I'm hungry again. Time to eat, again. I'd like to handle it in a way that's more subtle. First and foremost, the time it takes for these effects to set in is longer. Long enough that you can feel safe exploring around for an hour at a time without having to worry. However, the state change when you go from hungry to starved will be invisible: no notification that pops up telling you 'it's time to eat so you can have this status penalty immediately removed!' No, I want it to be so unnoticeable that you don't realize you're hungry until you find that you're underperforming in certain situations. Then you check your PipB oy and see, "Oh, looks like I haven't been eating. Better do something about that." Finally, the negative status effect of your undereating will stay even after you consume a food item, until you've gotten a good night's sleep. Sleeping won't heal you if you don't eat, but it's necessary to reset the penalty to 0.

 

Not eating will negatively affect Strength, Endurance and Perception (Only minor Perception). Overeating lowers Agility and Endurance.

Dehydration lowers your Agility, Strength and Perception. If you have severe dehydration, sprinting shouldn't even be an option--maybe it should drain health. Overhydration would also negatively impact you while sprinting.

Sleep deprivation impacts Perception and Intelligence, then Strength and Endurance. MAYBE Charisma. Oversleeping just makes you tired the next day.

 

Let's also bring back radiation sickness, because Max HP just doesn't feel like enough of a penalty.

 

Future plans:

Remember how having 1 in an Attribute = no perks? Suddenly having 2 perks available when one point higher is a little jarring, if the rest of the time you only gain access to one perk. The obvious solution is: more perks! Iron Fist and Big Leagues are now side by side in Level 2. Armorer and Blacksmith are now side-by-side at Level 3 or 4. The downside is, we'd have to come up with some 70 filler perks to make every attribute equal, but with the introduction of a hardcore mode, there are bound to be some 'features' that could be withheld (Say resting doesn't normally restore your health in hardcore, but there could be a high level perk in Endurance or something that brings it back--and now you have ranks! The higher it's ranked, the more health you can regain from resting). I fear there aren't enough features in the game that could take advantage of something like Intelligence...but that's why I'm pitching this idea out there.

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This is all open for suggestions and feedback. I am not the person who is going to implement this kind of system into the game, but someone out there has the skill and the endurance to see a project like this through. I just want my ideas to influence that kind of project, somewhere down the line.

[zenmasterd]

Radiation sickness for sure... vomiting, dizzyness, loosing Action Points randomly due to fatigue and stress from, well radiation... You're correct, loosing max health just doesn't do it...

[Crazyloon206]

I see people frantically releasing settlement objects, but I really want to see progression in the items you unlock for your settlement, similar to how some unnamed quest does it for the minute men, to add a new defensive settlement item.

 

I think some of the progression in the ability to craft new settlement objects should come from leveling up perks such as armorer/gunsmith/science etc., but other items should be unlockable after either encountering them in game or interacting with them (think toolboxes/safes/trip wires, etc.)

[Flowerguy360]

I see people frantically releasing settlement objects, but I really want to see progression in the items you unlock for your settlement, similar to how some unnamed quest does it for the minute men, to add a new defensive settlement item.

 

I think some of the progression in the ability to craft new settlement objects should come from leveling up perks such as armorer/gunsmith/science etc., but other items should be unlockable after either encountering them in game or interacting with them (think toolboxes/safes/trip wires, etc.)

 

The "Picket Fences" magazine in-game is supposed to open up new building options when you find them. It would be nice to see a mod that expands options like we have seen so far, but ties it to the magazine and increases the number of mags in the world (once we have the CK, of course).