Right-handed Hunting Rifle + Animations

[LordGrievous]

Finally... it seems that all the nerds out there playing this game just don't get what firearms are and how they are used.

When someone point out "hey what the hell ... left handed bolt action used by right handed??? It's a war between left handed ppl and right handed!" it seems to me they never actually fired a bold action or a rifle in general.

 

Go to youtube a look for a guy which is left handed and tries to use a standard bolt action: HE CAN'T.

Why? It's not about the "war" between hands, it's about firing position.

A well trained soldier of the WWI is a soldier who actually can quick fire a bolt action without losing much of accuracy.

In order to do that, you don't have take out from your elbow (like in the game) the gun to action the bolt.

Specifically the bolt must be light to maneuver and quick to arm (for example, you can't quick fire the Carcano 1891 because the bolt is heavy to action... unlike the Swiss equivalent or the Mauser or the Lee Enfield), the secondary hand must hold the rifle in order to have the sights aligned and the primary hand must be free to move from the trigger to the bolt in a matter of a second.

 

In the game you see a war veteran (I use the male char) having hard time using the bolt action ... he's very quick to put it into position in his elbow but every single shot to expell the fired ammunition he has to take it out and use the left hand.

Clearly in this case a right handed can use a rifle like this only if prone and the gun is on a support: this happens usually if you're a sniper (and in the game there is no actually prone or cover or stand support or whatsoever).

 

The revolvers are puzzling me as well. The 44 revolver is something of a mistery to me: why in the world you have to arm the trigger pulling back the hammer like an old Colt Navy revolver???

Possible, but unlikely. The .50 Beowulf isn't a super common round. It's more likely that Beth just didn't want to make a separate model for the .50 cal rifle. I think I would have preferred that they were separate weapons, with the hunting rifle having a higher firing rate and the .50 having much higher damage. Ah well, can't have everything.

 

You're right on the .44, though. I don't think I've ever seen a .44 that looks like the one in game that was a single action. I'm not saying it's impossible for one to exist, I'm just not sure why you would take a modern weapon and remove the double action from it, since you can fire a DA like a SA if you want too anyway.

[bben46]

One guess is that the devs that Beth assigned to do the things like weapons animation and what caliber ammo was used for which weapon were not familiar with actual guns and based their work on misinformation, TV and movies instead experience with real guns.

 

Even in FO3 they were using the same .38 round in both the pistol and hunting rifle.

Then as for the .50 cal. As said, the .50 BMG as used in the anti material rifle is not the same round used for the Hunting rifle (.50 Beowulf) or in a pistol .50 Action Express - these are different cartridges and cannot be used interchangeably.

 

 

IRL there were cartridges that were intended to be used in both pistol and rifle - such as the colt .44-40 and much later Ruger built a Carbine to fire the .44 mag pistol bullet. But they all suffered from the compromise - used in a pistol, you get a heavy pistol with a lot of recoil. Then in a rifle a shorter range. So these tended to be not as successful as a rifle designed to fire a higher velocity rifle round, or a lighter weight pistol designed for shorter range close in shooting. I have fired the .44 mag in both the pistol (Ruger Black Hawk) and Ruger carbine. (the carbine looks just like a Ruger 10-22 but bigger.) As said, the pistol is heavy and has a lot of recoil. You are not going to be snapping off 3 aimed shots in 3 seconds with this cannon. And the rifle is not as accurate as a .308, but compares favorably with a .30-30 as a brush gun. And both Pistol and carbine are fun to shoot.

[GrafSchmidt]

There is an awful lot of ammo and gun types out there. Point is: they changed a bit there a bit here, to look like che Commonwealth it's different from the rest of the U.S.

But like you said, those involved in programming weapons looks like they haven't fired a single round.

 

A little more common sense would have been in order, to program weapons: generally guns should be reliable, easy to carry, practical to fire ... not like in the game "we do this because it's nice and we like it and it's sci-fi and shut up".

Edited December 8, 2015 by GrafSchmidt

[falloutgrif]

 

Finally... it seems that all the nerds out there playing this game just don't get what firearms are and how they are used.

When someone point out "hey what the hell ... left handed bolt action used by right handed??? It's a war between left handed ppl and right handed!" it seems to me they never actually fired a bold action or a rifle in general.

 

Go to youtube a look for a guy which is left handed and tries to use a standard bolt action: HE CAN'T.

Why? It's not about the "war" between hands, it's about firing position.

A well trained soldier of the WWI is a soldier who actually can quick fire a bolt action without losing much of accuracy.

In order to do that, you don't have take out from your elbow (like in the game) the gun to action the bolt.

Specifically the bolt must be light to maneuver and quick to arm (for example, you can't quick fire the Carcano 1891 because the bolt is heavy to action... unlike the Swiss equivalent or the Mauser or the Lee Enfield), the secondary hand must hold the rifle in order to have the sights aligned and the primary hand must be free to move from the trigger to the bolt in a matter of a second.

 

In the game you see a war veteran (I use the male char) having hard time using the bolt action ... he's very quick to put it into position in his elbow but every single shot to expell the fired ammunition he has to take it out and use the left hand.

Clearly in this case a right handed can use a rifle like this only if prone and the gun is on a support: this happens usually if you're a sniper (and in the game there is no actually prone or cover or stand support or whatsoever).

 

The revolvers are puzzling me as well. The 44 revolver is something of a mistery to me: why in the world you have to arm the trigger pulling back the hammer like an old Colt Navy revolver???

Possible, but unlikely. The .50 Beowulf isn't a super common round. It's more likely that Beth just didn't want to make a separate model for the .50 cal rifle. I think I would have preferred that they were separate weapons, with the hunting rifle having a higher firing rate and the .50 having much higher damage. Ah well, can't have everything.

 

You're right on the .44, though. I don't think I've ever seen a .44 that looks like the one in game that was a single action. I'm not saying it's impossible for one to exist, I'm just not sure why you would take a modern weapon and remove the double action from it, since you can fire a DA like a SA if you want too anyway.

 

i know what it was all bethesda's weapon people were busy working on doom and the old blood dlc for wolfenstein i mean look at the weapons in those games they are awesome looking.

Edited December 18, 2015 by falloutgrif

[GrafSchmidt]

 

Finally... it seems that all the nerds out there playing this game just don't get what firearms are and how they are used.

When someone point out "hey what the hell ... left handed bolt action used by right handed??? It's a war between left handed ppl and right handed!" it seems to me they never actually fired a bold action or a rifle in general.

 

Go to youtube a look for a guy which is left handed and tries to use a standard bolt action: HE CAN'T.

Why? It's not about the "war" between hands, it's about firing position.

A well trained soldier of the WWI is a soldier who actually can quick fire a bolt action without losing much of accuracy.

In order to do that, you don't have take out from your elbow (like in the game) the gun to action the bolt.

Specifically the bolt must be light to maneuver and quick to arm (for example, you can't quick fire the Carcano 1891 because the bolt is heavy to action... unlike the Swiss equivalent or the Mauser or the Lee Enfield), the secondary hand must hold the rifle in order to have the sights aligned and the primary hand must be free to move from the trigger to the bolt in a matter of a second.

 

In the game you see a war veteran (I use the male char) having hard time using the bolt action ... he's very quick to put it into position in his elbow but every single shot to expell the fired ammunition he has to take it out and use the left hand.

Clearly in this case a right handed can use a rifle like this only if prone and the gun is on a support: this happens usually if you're a sniper (and in the game there is no actually prone or cover or stand support or whatsoever).

 

The revolvers are puzzling me as well. The 44 revolver is something of a mistery to me: why in the world you have to arm the trigger pulling back the hammer like an old Colt Navy revolver???

Possible, but unlikely. The .50 Beowulf isn't a super common round. It's more likely that Beth just didn't want to make a separate model for the .50 cal rifle. I think I would have preferred that they were separate weapons, with the hunting rifle having a higher firing rate and the .50 having much higher damage. Ah well, can't have everything.

 

You're right on the .44, though. I don't think I've ever seen a .44 that looks like the one in game that was a single action. I'm not saying it's impossible for one to exist, I'm just not sure why you would take a modern weapon and remove the double action from it, since you can fire a DA like a SA if you want too anyway.

 

 

Actually, now that I take a closer look, this doesn't make sense either.

I don't use the pipe-bolt, I can only speak for the bolt-action. If you mod the bolt action to chamber the whatever .50 you can see the 308 has a fire rate of 6, and the .50 a fire rate of 7.

In the bolt-action (and the pipe-bolt) the fire rate is how fast the character actions the bolt.

 

It's just that they put the animation to the left slowing the bolt-actioning movement even more.

And the revolvers suffer from the same problem: even if you mod the fire rate making the char discharging the gun like the "Deliverer", you'll see him/her moving his/her thumb like Flash.

Edited December 23, 2015 by GrafSchmidt

[MBile]

off topic discussion aside,

 

right handed hunting rifle and animation still required. it should be a simple fix mod with just replacing the receiver .nif files and the .kf anims for 3rd and 1st person.

 

once a blender .nif importer shows up for fo4 i'd probably give a crack at it. I always had problems with the anims exporting in fnv though.

[JackTrenton]

OMG so much win here. I hate hate hate the left handed bolt on the hunting rifle. The bolt action has always been my weapon of choice in Fallout games, so this makes it so much worse. Someone please put the bolt on the correct (right) side and fix the reloading animations. I can't believe Bethesda gave us this crap. It's like they have little kids in charge or something.

[noahdvs]

 

And the revolvers suffer from the same problem: even if you mod the fire rate making the char discharging the gun like the "Deliverer", you'll see him/her moving his/her thumb like Flash.

 

Revolvers have the bolt action flag. The weapons that have the bolt action flag (by default) also have animations associated with it such as the animation that makes the .44 look like a single action revolver. If you disable the flag, you disable the animation.

[TheWageMan]

I think they did it because they originally intended the hunting rifle to be able to be converted into a pistol. Their default pistol grip animation places the left hand OVER the right hand. To cycle a round using on a right handed bolt action pistol, the player would have to remove their left hand, switch the pistol from their right to left hand, chamber with the right hand, move the gun from the left to right hand, then place their left hand back over the right hand.

 

By making the rifle left-handed but held in the right hand, they could use the same animation for cycling a round from a pistol grip or rifle grip. It looks like s***, but it saves on creating another animation.

Edited June 18, 2016 by TheWageMan

[MBile]

I think they did it because they originally intended the hunting rifle to be able to be converted into a pistol. Their default pistol grip animation places the left hand OVER the right hand. To cycle a round using on a right handed bolt action pistol, the player would have to remove their left hand, switch the pistol from their right to left hand, chamber with the right hand, move the gun from the left to right hand, then place their left hand back over the right hand.

 

By making the rifle left-handed but held in the right hand, they could use the same animation for cycling a round from a pistol grip or rifle grip. It looks like s***, but it saves on creating another animation.

That's nonsense. Bullcrap programming is bullcrap. Lipstick on a pig. It's still a pig.

 

Bottom line: Bethesda screwed up.

 

Just need a fix, not a debate or "explanation".

 

cheers