CaptainKruskal Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Hello guys, I've read some old threads where it's said that there is a Havoc bug preventing a worldspace to exceed -64/+64 cells. Is it still relevant ? Am I wrong ? Second question: If my worldspace contains 128*128 = 16384 cells so this is equivalent to 943,72 km². It seems unbelievable. Am I wrong somewhere in the calculations ? Edited November 22, 2015 by CaptainKruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agerweb Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 You are correct that you can not exceed 64x64 cells. Your calculation is slightly wrong, a cell is approx 3.3 km2 that makes about 54k km2 for your 128 x 128. skyrim at 119 x 94 is smaller but this is anyways too small for a continent so the scale doesn't really work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) Hello Agerweb, -64/+64 cells is not as the same as 64*64 cells. We can draw (x) and (y) axes and note that there are more than 64*64 cells, isn't it ? In fact, we have 128 cells on (x) and 128 cells on (y). So logically the limit size of a worldspace should be equal to 128*128 (?) -You say that a cell is approx 3.3km². Knowing that 128*128 = 16384 cells and that a cell is approx 3.3km², the area of 16384 cells is equal to 16384 * 3.3 = 54067 km² so you're right ! -Concerning Skyrim, I don't understand how this is possible. Skyrim is a worldspace too and the game runs even though the continent has an area larger than 64*64 cells. What do you think about it ? Edited November 24, 2015 by CaptainKruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) I found a thread on the Bethesda forums where a guy explains the problem:Fixing the 64x64 cell havok bug. For when you just want a bigger world. In particular, on this thread it seems clear that there is a bug when you put some items (actors, player, etc...) beyond -64/+64 on the X axis whereas the limit is the double on Y axis. The bug is closely related to Havoc engine.I infer from all of this that if we want to create a very large worldspace, it is better to go his way and "simply" divide your worldspace into two or more worldspaces, with the problems this creates in terms of immersion. With great worldspaces comes great calculations... But that's another debate. Does everyone agree that the size limit of a safe worldspace is:[-64,+64] on (x) that is to say a total of 129 cells[-128,+128] on (y) that is to say a total of 257 cells129 x 257 cells that is equal to 33 153 cells representing an area of approx 109K km² ? Edited November 25, 2015 by CaptainKruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamb0 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Hello guys, I've read some old threads where it's said that there is a Havoc bug preventing a worldspace to exceed -64/+64 cells. Is it still relevant ? Am I wrong ? Second question: If my worldspace contains 128*128 = 16384 cells so this is equivalent to 943,72 km². It seems unbelievable. Am I wrong somewhere in the calculations ? ...Does everyone agree that the size limit of a safe worldspace is:[-64,+64] on (x) that is to say a total of 129 cells[-128,+128] on (y) that is to say a total of 257 cells129 x 257 cells that is equal to 33 153 cells representing an area of approx 109K km² ? It should be -64 +63 for a total of 128 playable cells on the x axis. The actual worldspace can exceed this, but the Havok bug kick in when NPC exceed this limit. The y axis is unaffected by the Havok bug. The maximum number of cells on the y axis is 512 cells ( -256 to 255 ) or 16384 pixels agerweb You are correct that you can not exceed 64x64 cells. Your calculation is slightly wrong, a cell is approx 3.3 km2 that makes about 54k km2 for your 128 x 128. skyrim at 119 x 94 is smaller but this is anyways too small for a continent so the scale doesn't really work A Skyrim cell is 57.6 metres (63 yards) on all four sides, meaning that a worldspace that is 128 cells square is only 7.372 km in width and height. The maximum size of the worldspace in the game engine can be 512 cells in both x and y, but as mentioned, the Havok bug kicks in if you exceed -64 or +63 on the x axis. Edited November 25, 2015 by Tamb0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 25, 2015 Author Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) Hello Tamb0 and thank you for your reply ! I recapitulate what you are saying. A worldspace should respect the following size limits:[-64,+63] on the x axis i.e. 128 playable cells . Beyond this limit, a Havok bug causes dysfunctions of NPC only on this axis.[-256,+255] on the y axis i.e. 512 playable cells. It's a natural limitation.This means in practice that your worldspace area limit is equal to 128 x 512 cells which represents approx 217 km². Do you agree ? Edited November 26, 2015 by CaptainKruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 You are correct that you can not exceed 64x64 cells. Your calculation is slightly wrong, a cell is approx 3.3 km2 that makes about 54k km2 for your 128 x 128. skyrim at 119 x 94 is smaller but this is anyways too small for a continent so the scale doesn't really work Agerweb,I realize that there is an error in my areas calculations, and in yours too :geek:If the side of a cell measures 57,6 m, the area of the cell is 57,6² = 3317,76 m². The conversion of m² to km² is not the same as m to km. We must shift the decimal point to the left by 6 rows and not 3.3317,76 m² is equal to 0,00331776 km² and not 3,3K km². Haaaa math sweet math ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamb0 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Hello Tamb0 and thank you for your reply ! I recapitulate what you are saying. A worldspace should respect the following size limits:[-64,+63] on the x axis i.e. 128 playable cells . Beyond this limit, a Havok bug causes dysfunctions of NPC only on this axis.[-256,+255] on the y axis i.e. 512 playable cells. It's a natural limitation.This means in practice that your worldspace area limit is equal to 128 x 512 cells which represents approx 217 km². Do you agree ? It's not as simple as that. A worldspace that size is going to require LOD and to preserve your sanity, you would have to make the worldspace 512 x 512 cells, then map out a border area on the x axis that doesn't exceed the -64, +63 bounds. I have covered a lot of this in my tutorials. You might want to take a read - Tutorial Index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 26, 2015 Author Share Posted November 26, 2015 Ok thank you, i'll take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainKruskal Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Your tutorials and guides are really interesting and L3DT seems to be THE soft to make random terrains. But random terrain is not what i'm looking for. I have already a map drawn "by hand". My goal is to make sure that, respecting the real distances, one worldspace would be enough to accommodate it. And if my calculations are correct, my map only needs an area of 65 x 127 cells. That said, your website will help me, for sure ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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