Who to gank: Brotherhood or Institute?

[charwo]

Believe it or not, that's actually an honest question. I don't see it as good vs evil: I see it as the constant of the Brotherhood being an asshole and the potential redemption of the Institute under your character's leadership. Yes the the Institute tinkered with FEV, but they also found a cure for it. Both factions will liquidate the Railroad. I honestly can't see the Minutemen and the Brotherhood not coming to blows at some point. The Institute is like Operation Paperclip:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip

 

We could have hung a good amount of those people, especially Werner von Braun. In stead, they helped us go to the moon. They, more or less, did all right without the toxic atmosphere of Nazi Germany, and it seems the Institute is waiting for someone to save them from themselves. If "Father" can't see your character's disgust at Synth creation/enslavement, he's a damn fool. I think even Father knows in his heart of hearts, the third generation Synths were a bridge too far, in any case he doesn't press his point convincingly and does seem concerned about your objections.

 

In a straight up contest between the Brotherhood and the Institute, the Institute I see as a wild card, dangerous and yet probably vital. The Brotherhood had it's chance in Owen Lyons, and they rejected it. But I( could see the Institute mass manufacturing GECKS, I see them curing the mutants, I see them going back to non-sapient second and first generation synths. No true good will ever come from the Brotherhood again.

 

My ultimate loyalty is with the Minutemen. But if given the choice between the big boys, which one deserves the gank more? Which one is the worst enemy of humanity? Which is the worst enemy of freedom?

[Alaratt]

This is a strange game in terms of choices, I feel like I'm trying to decide on which is the lesser of two evils instead of making the right decisions.

The brotherhood IS there, fighting what they consider to be a scourge of mankind, and are fighting super mutants and such at the same time, which benefits the Commonwealth in the short term, but ultimately will not share any real gains made with anybody else.

The Institute has better potential to solve more problems everywhere then anybody else but has straight up written the rest of humanity off as a lost cause and as far as I have noticed provides no immediate benefits to the Commonwealth at all.

The Railroad is useless as any kind of aid; present or future. I don't really understand why they were even a main option but apparently the Minutemen aren't. (that I know of)

[McC1oud]

I joined the brotherhood at the cop station. Did I f*#@ up my chances to befriend the institute?

[Raycheetah]

I joined the brotherhood at the cop station. Did I f*** up my chances to befriend the institute?

No, but the two aren't going to get along, either. ='[.]'=

[Warmaker01]

I went with the Brotherhood. I have also loved the Brotherhood ever since FO1. Maxson is a fiery douche, there's no going around it. His lines and orders to the PC often irks me. But there is no denying these qualities of the Brotherhood's actions in FO4 and FO in general:

 

Despite their preference to focus on technology hoarding and keeping to themselves, they have expended precious resources on combating dangers that the every day wastelander dreads: Raiders, lawless Mercs (Gunners in FO4), Super Mutants, and even the Synths given the chance. The Institute does none of that.

 

Again, despite the Brotherhood preferring to mind their own business, they have come to the aid of a region when there truly is a massive danger. In FO1, they assisted against the Master and his Supermutant Army. In FO2, they assisted in taking down the Enclave at the West Coast and stopped their plan in killing everyone in the wasteland/California region. In FO3, Elder Lyons expended considerable resources and manpower to help save the Capital Wasteland from the Enclave in another crazy plan and helped push Project Purity to finalization. In FONV, the Brotherhood there is in a semi-ruined state due to the NCR but again, it comes out to help against the dangers in the New Vegas region. In FO4, if you ignore Maxson's fiery rhetoric, the Brotherhood DOES arrive into the Commonwealth region to deal with the very real dangers that the Institute had been doing.

 

The Institute has done NONE of that. When you roll into the Commonwealth as the Sole Survivor, what do you run into?

 

People disappearing in the night.

 

Settlements attacked by Synths.

 

Synths infiltrating communities; Paranoia and fear in the Commonwealth spreads; People can't sleep right. On top of the daily dangers of the wasteland, the Institute may come at any time for you.

 

And of course, right at the beginning of the game, the Institute kills your spouse and steals your boy.

 

I also want to remind others of the reasons why Virgil left the Institute to begin with. It was a question of ethics and what the Institute was doing on a regular basis behind closed doors.

 

Sorry, the Brotherhood may be a fanatical group and Elder Maxson is a lot to take in, but the Brotherhood have a long history in Fallout of coming to help when the wasteland needed them the most. The Brotherhood berated Elder Lyons' "charity" for the Capital Wasteland. Yet here they are in the Commonwealth dealing with the terror of the night of the Commonwealth: The Institute.

 

The Institute had the potential to do amazing things. But that's just it. It's potential only. What they HAVE done are many unforgivable things in the Commonwealth stretching for decades. Justice had to be carried out and everyone in the Institute had a lot to answer for. So much scientific, technological marvel, but all they really were was a different form of The Master from FO1.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Warmaker01

[geekminxen]

You guys make some excellent points about both sides. Ultimately, though, I think Warmaker01 is right: The Institute has given up on all people who aren't Institute. The Brotherhood has a pretty dim view of everyone not-Brotherhood, but they are trying to protect what's left of humanity by taking away their toys, not writing them off. I hate that the BoS has reverted to its pre-Lyons state, but they're at least not kidnapping/murdering people. Yes, there seem to be a few individuals within the Institute who care about the humans "above," but I didn't get the impression that there were enough of them to redeem the whole organization.

Plus I've got a whole "how you treat your cats" bias thing going on between the two groups, but I won't bore everyone with that. :laugh:

[Lessabos]

You forget one thing, you will become the institute, however after time doing quest for them, I lost all hope for humanity and consider all humans in Boston Area expandable, they are just stupid superstitious racist plebs.

[Warmaker01]

 

Plus I've got a whole "how you treat your cats" bias thing going on between the two groups, but I won't bore everyone with that. :laugh:

I saw that part during my visit there. I immediately thought, "Bethesda just instantly made these guys irredeemable villains to many people." :cool:

[charwo]

The thing is, while Father has definitively written off humanity above the Institute, you haven't, hopefully. And what Father wants is Institute leadership that can lead to a new age. I could be wrong, but unless the male character was high ranking in the military, Father has no reason top assume you're better from logistics or tactics. He wants someone who will make new policy. Father is....part of the old guard, but he sees the old guard are getting them nowhere. The Institute offers far, far more to the people of the Commonwealth than the Brotherhood. Brotherhood offers "protection" but the institute can offer rebuilding, better medical care, ample food and power. The Brotherhood is single-minded about what it wants, and does a poor job of developing infrastructure, the Institute is far more holistic.Neither is offering a free society, but the Brotherhood represents stagnation and a feudal future . The Institute is a game changer, so much so that I can see why someone might see the Railroad as acceptable losses. Technology doesn't solve all problems but it solves almost all problems of material well being, something the Brotherhood is too ideologically constrained to see.

[jcdenton2012]

I think the ultimate moral dilemma is the same we face in every fallout game. "Who would you trust with the fate of the world?" In Fallout 4; the Railroad, Brotherhood, and Institute; are all into some evil s#*!. Nobody is exactly the good guy here, but... when it comes down to it... who would you trust moving forward and honestly... it's kind of nobody. Justice is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day no matter which side you choose, 'justice' is irrelevant to them. They all want to be 'the last man standing' no matter the collateral damage. Even the goodguys are willing to nuke Boston just to win and in doing so... who delivers justice down upon you... the mass murderer.

 

You really can't justify the Institute's actions, but neither can you justify the actions of those fighting the Institute given how far they are willing to go to win. The only thing you can do is weigh the pros and cons. Do you trust your character enough to change the Institute as its new leader, or do you trust the young Elder Maxson?