Crime and Punishment Overhaul Mod

[drewsbrew]

Hello all,

 

So I've had some computer issues for a while now, but that's done and over with and I want to start working on a fairly ambitious crime and punishment overhaul mod. I'm hoping to get some feedback and suggestions from the community. I don't have any idea when this will be done, I'll probably release an early version with only the most basic features, then add the more complicated features in over time. Thanks in advance to anyone who actually takes the time to read this!

 

Overview;

 

Vanilla Skyrim has two major problems with crime and punishment; 1) there really isn't very much you can do that actually constitutes a crime and 2) every crime, regardless of how major or minor, has essentially the same punishment-- pay a fine or go to jail, and there are no further consequences. If you murder someone's father, mother, brother, sister, friend, neighbor, or someone they're otherwise close to, don't worry just serve a short jail sentence or pay a relatively small fine and the whole town will forget all about it. Did you carelessly throw some weapons on the ground in view of a guard? Well, it's off to jail with you then, or you can just pay the fine. In addition to the major problems there are any number of albeit less important features that, if implemented properly, they would make a substantial difference in the overall experience of the player.

 

Overview of Features

 

· Reputation: The people of Skyrim will remember your actions, good or bad, and treat you accordingly. If you're a known thief for example shop keepers will watch you like a hawk or may not even want you in their stores at all. On the other hand, if you have a good reputation some shop keepers may give you a big discount. Jarls and guards will also take your reputation into consideration when you're accused of a crime, or when deciding the punishment for crimes committed. In a nutshell, the worse your reputation gets the more you can expect to pay higher prices in shops and be paid less for items you sell. You'll also be more likely to get falsely accused of a crime, more likely to have mercenaries sent after you, and more likely to be the victim of corrupt guards. You'll also serve longer jail sentences and pay bigger fines, and Jarls and guards will be less inclined to believe you when you claim innocence of crimes you're accused of.

 

· Crime and Punishment: There are a lot more types of crimes that can be committed and there are also more punishments for them. Any crime committed against a Jarl or otherwise important person (such as a thane) has a much stiffer punishment. A player can be charged with multiple crimes, for example if you break into someone's house and get caught stealing from them that is theft, breaking and entering, and trespassing. There are also trials, and trials by combat.

 

· Life in Prison: There are now other inmates in prison who will interact with the Dragonborn in various ways; some will be hostile and fight with or maybe even try to kill the Dragoborn, some will gamble, some will want favors, etc.

 

· Different NPC Behavior: Guards will pay close attention to and follow suspicious people (anyone sneaking or wearing a hood) also there are some corrupt guards who will shake you down, or may try and steal some of your money and/or gear while you're in jail. Some NPCs will now commit crimes, or try to frame the Dragonborn. Animals can no longer report crimes

 

· NPCs inventory re-spawns after a period of time; a short time for wealthy NPCs and a long time for impoverished NPCs, which will make picking pockets more lucrative

 

Types of Crimes

 

1-1) Being a werewolf, vampire, or cannibal- fairly self explanatory

 

1-2) Talos worship- Using a Talos shrine in public, or having a Talos amulet

 

1-3) Treason- [civil war quest only] One side or the other will charge Dragonborn with treason

 

1-4) Slavery- being a slaver (not a crime in Solsteim)

 

1-5) Banditry- can join some bandit groups, and can also from own bandit group and recruit members

 

1-6) Murder or Conspiracy to Commit Murder

 

2-1) Possessing, using, making, or selling skooma

 

2-2) Assault with a deadly weapon

 

2-3) Illegal Gambling- Fights, drinking contests, horse races, and games (can be bet on or participated in)

 

2-4) False accusations/frame ups

 

2-5) Attempting to bribe a guard or Jarl

 

3-1) Theft- mostly the same, just with harsher penalties

 

3-2) Killing domesticated animals- now has a harsher penalty

 

3-3) Destruction of property- using weapons or magic in town, especially indoors

 

3-4) Assault (unarmed)

 

3-5) Pick-Pocketing- now a crime

 

3-6) Lock Picking- has a harsher punishment

 

4-1) Trespassing (more areas are considered trespassing, and it now has a greater penalty)

 

4-2) drunk in public

 

4-3) disturbing the Jarl's peace

 

 

Categories of crimes;

 

1- The most severe crimes, they are not limited to holds, if the Dragonborn commits a crime in this category a bounty will be placed on them in every hold. Your status as a Thane cannot get you off the hook for these crimes. These crimes are punishable by execution or life in prison, there is no fine to pay, and no 'Trial by Combat' option.

 

2- Still fairly serious crimes, if you're caught committing a crime in this category expect to serve a lengthy jail sentence and be fined.

 

3- Crimes in this category will be punished by a fairly short jail sentence or require the Dragonborn to pay a relatively small fine.

 

4- Minor crimes, crimes in this category will land the Dragonborn some time in the stocks where they may be pelted with produce

 

[smrdis123]

Great idea, I`ve always wanted trials in Skyrim, but the reputation system seems like it would need too much scripting behind it (but I have no experience with that). I think trial by combat should be an option how to defend against the most serious of accusations like murder or skooma bussiness, and I would add a whole new category which results in being attacked on sight without a trial (being a bandit or a werewolf). Thats just my suggestion, if you manage to complete the mod in any way, I think it will be a must-have . :cool:

[AnachronisticPortal]

I'll be watching this with a whole lot of hope - I know modding can be a pain, but I hope you stick with this. It could be an amazing expansion of gameplay, you'll just need to be cautious of script bloat.

[drewsbrew]

I'll be watching this with a whole lot of hope - I know modding can be a pain, but I hope you stick with this. It could be an amazing expansion of gameplay, you'll just need to be cautious of script bloat.

Yeah, that's one of my primary concerns, especially considering I'm only just learning how to script. Everything else should be fairly easy, just time consuming.

[drewsbrew]

Great idea, I`ve always wanted trials in Skyrim, but the reputation system seems like it would need too much scripting behind it (but I have no experience with that). I think trial by combat should be an option how to defend against the most serious of accusations like murder or skooma bussiness, and I would add a whole new category which results in being attacked on sight without a trial (being a bandit or a werewolf). Thats just my suggestion, if you manage to complete the mod in any way, I think it will be a must-have . :cool:

Thanks, and those are good suggestions that I'll keep in mind... I'm kinda going back and forth on the werewolf and vampire thing... part of me wants to allow a life in jail option, and part of me wants to go the 'kill on sight' rout. In any case there will not be a trial option for these offenders.

[flappyjack69]

How about public indecency, that is; being naked in public should get you arrested. After all, if you're not wearing clothes, NPCs will comment in digust, reflecting that public indecency is frowned upon.

[drewsbrew]

How about public indecency, that is; being naked in public should get you arrested. After all, if you're not wearing clothes, NPCs will comment in digust, reflecting that public indecency is frowned upon.

I've been thinking about that, I think I'd probably put that into the "disturbing the Jarl's peace" category.

[WolfHunter17]

trials by combat

 

Count me in.

Edited December 28, 2015 by WolfHunter17

[Shinkoku]

The only problem I'd argue is with Talos Worship. Would that only be a crime in areas under Thalmor control (so not including Whiterun or the Stormcloak-allied holds) (realistic) or everywhere (un-lore-friendly and immersion breaking)? And would it be able to change with the civil war? So if the stormcloaks win, it's no longer a crime anywhere, and whether it's a crime in a certain hold changes based on your position in the civil war (including compatibility with Civil War Overhaul). Would you get arrested for having a Talos amulet in your inventory, or only for wearing it?

 

And how would you go about getting arrested for slavery, since vanilla Skyrim doesn't have a slavery system?

 

Logically, wouldn't using skooma have a higher penalty than possession, and selling (or 'possession with intent to sell,' meaning just possessing a lot typically) an even higher penalty? (That's how most justice systems work). How are you caught for possessing skooma?

 

How does the vampire/werewolf thing work? Does it auto-trigger if you're one, does it only trigger if you're in werewolf form/ in an advanced stage of vampirism/ caught feeding from someone as a vampire? What about vampire/werewolf player companions?

 

Is worshiping the Daedric Princes illegal for that matter? Is summoning daedra illegal? Is necromancy illegal?

 

For theft, do you get charged if you have stolen goods in your inventory when arrested, or only when caught in the act? Does the penalty for theft vary with value of goods stolen?

 

What happens if you order your follower to commit a crime? Is that where the 'conspiracy' charge kicks in?

[drewsbrew]

The only problem I'd argue is with Talos Worship. Would that only be a crime in areas under Thalmor control (so not including Whiterun or the Stormcloak-allied holds) (realistic) or everywhere (un-lore-friendly and immersion breaking)? And would it be able to change with the civil war? So if the stormcloaks win, it's no longer a crime anywhere, and whether it's a crime in a certain hold changes based on your position in the civil war (including compatibility with Civil War Overhaul). Would you get arrested for having a Talos amulet in your inventory, or only for wearing it?

 

And how would you go about getting arrested for slavery, since vanilla Skyrim doesn't have a slavery system?

 

Logically, wouldn't using skooma have a higher penalty than possession, and selling (or 'possession with intent to sell,' meaning just possessing a lot typically) an even higher penalty? (That's how most justice systems work). How are you caught for possessing skooma?

 

How does the vampire/werewolf thing work? Does it auto-trigger if you're one, does it only trigger if you're in werewolf form/ in an advanced stage of vampirism/ caught feeding from someone as a vampire? What about vampire/werewolf player companions?

 

Is worshiping the Daedric Princes illegal for that matter? Is summoning daedra illegal? Is necromancy illegal?

 

For theft, do you get charged if you have stolen goods in your inventory when arrested, or only when caught in the act? Does the penalty for theft vary with value of goods stolen?

 

What happens if you order your follower to commit a crime? Is that where the 'conspiracy' charge kicks in?

Thanks for the feedback, and sorry about the delayed response, I had a bit of a medical emergency and was away for a while.

 

OK, so for starters, lore friendlyness and immersion are my primary concerns with this mod. So yes, Ideally Talos worship would only be a crime in Thalmore/Imperial controlled areas, and yes, I would like to have that change as necessary with the civil war quest. As far as being compatible with The Civil War Overhaul, yes, that is something I would like to do and going even further I would also like to make this mod compatible with the Beyond Skyrim project too (I'm working with them already). Having said all of that though,keep in mind that I'm learning as I go o I may have to create a more basic version of the mod first, and then worry about refining it and making it compatible with other mods. As far as how Talos worship would be punished, you would be arrested on sight for wearing an amulet or using a Talos shrine, but if you go to jail with an amulet in your inventory you can be charged with the crime at that point.

 

As far as slavery, I know vanilla Skyrim doesn't have a slavery system, but it is possible to mod one. There are dozens of them out there. I want to create my own slavery system that would be a part of this mod, but at the moment those ideas are the least developed relative to the rest of the project.

 

Everything you said about Skooma and drug use is correct, and that's the way it would probably be in the finished mod. The list of crimes and categories of crimes I presented here is in a really rough state, and there will be a lot of refining as this project develops. As far as how you get charged with possession, there would be a number of ways; 1) if you're arrested and have it in your possession that's one way to get caught, 2) I want to have the possibility of frame-ups and searches be a part of this mod, so the Dragonborn may possibly be accused of a crime by an NPC or the guards may decide to search you of their own accord if they deem you a 'suspicious person'. In either of those cases if a guard searches you and you have skooma in your inventory you'll get charged with possession.

 

The werewolf and vampire thing will work pretty much the same way it currently does as far as getting caught, I may however add in a few features that will make not getting caught more of a challenge. i.e.; forced transformations on a full moon, maybe even a 'black out' occurs for low level werewolves where after you transform you have a limited amount of time before you black out and then you wake up naked in the woods or something, not knowing what you did. I think it would be interesting to have a 'learn to control your new powers' stage.

 

Worshiping or summoning Daedra is not illegal, and neither is necromancy for that matter-- they even say in game during the College of Winterhold questline that it was the Mages Guild who put bans on necromancy, and they're not around anymore, and as far as I'm aware Daedra worship isn't banned anywhere, but it is 'frowned upon' so basically these thing won't be illegal but you may damage your reputation by doing these things openly.

 

The theft aspects will work in more or less the same way they do in the vanilla game, just with stiffer penalties, and if you have stolen goods in your inventory when arrested or searched by the guards you'll get charged for the crime, and yes the higher the value the harsher the penalty.

 

As far as followers go, I haven't really thought about that yet so thanks for bringing that up. The conspiracy charge was a little different, I wanted to add the possibility of hiring thugs to send after someone, or maybe even hiring The Dark Brotherhood and if you're caught that's where the conspiracy charge would come into play.