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Hot Topic #1: The dumbing down of Oblivion


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#91
ninja_lord666

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Yes it was. I was sick and tired of other rpg (too short, too bad......)
and then...... i saw the light (it was a flash light!) and buyed OBLIVION, a true rpg. It's been a while too (since easter) , but with a long side quest, 5 or 6 guilds, each one with multiple quests, dozens of side quests, 6883 (at least) mods and plugins, i think it is a couple bucks well spent.

What game are you playing?! :huh: Oblivion has 4 guilds plus the arena and less than 200 quests...or did you mean to say:
"I saw the light (it was a flash light!) and bought Morrowind, a true rpg."

#92
Abramul

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Not sure that you can even call Morrowind a 'true' RPG. That, to me, would mean anticipating all plausible approaches to any situation and implementing an appropriate result for each, a feat that is probably impossible in a computer game of such scope.

For instance, you can't come clean about being an agent of the Blades (and, perhaps, make it clear your loyalty is now to Morrowind), or ask Sottilde to make a copy of the Code Book and give you the original.

#93

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Practically all my thoughts of TES being "dumbed down" have been posted before.

But I just want to say is that you Morrowind guys shouldn't worry too much about the future of TES. Well, maybe a little but here's my thoughts:

The Elder Scrolls has always being criticized for being a bit inaccessible to new players or people who don't have a lot of free time on their hands. I know that TES: Arena is like that. I could barely get out of the first dungeon when I get killed by a mage in, get this, IN THE TOWN! But anyways...

It may not have been so much that BethSoft was dumbing down Oblivion for the know-nothing generation of Xbox kids, but more simply to address those issues to make the game a bit easier to get in and hopefully a bit more fun. But some things just don't make sense. Axes in Blunt??? Where's my Medium Armor? Throwing weapons would've been a lot of fun with Havok. Those things, to me, sound as if Oblivion was being a little rushed towards the end of development.

So the point I'm trying to make is that we should stay hopeful that TES V won't be an even more simplified version of TES IV. Instead of saying what I wish TES IV was, I'll just say what I hope TES V will be. (which is more helpful if BethSoft devs are actually watching this thread imo)


First, burn the leveling system. It isn't rewarding and frankly doesn't make any sense to the gameplay. You're obligated to put off doing ANY quests until later levels, since your rewards will be crap if completed too early, which isn't very fun. There isn't any feeling of danger since baddies are "leveled" to you, nor will you have a sense of power at lvl 40 for the same reason I said.

Second, bring back all the missing skills, Medium Armor, Levitation, Spears, Unarmored at least, and put Axes back in their own skill. And, at least put two handed weapons like Claymores, Battle Axes, Warhammers in their own skills since they are wielded differently than the other weapons.

Third, ditch fast-travel and instead implement a transportation system that could drop you off at "safe zones" like cities, inns, villages, basically any place that isn't a cave/ruin/anything that has enemies in or near it. I think this is much better than being able to be whisked away to any place as soon as the combat music stops like in Ob, would really bring back the sense of danger.

Fourth, bring back the dialogue style of Morrowind. Having full voice acting and amazing lip sync was fairly cool at first in Oblivion, but it doesn't make sense in an RPG because it really limits the amount of dialogue there can actually be in the game. Voice acting should only be exclusively for dialogue between the NPCs and for important quest-related characters.

edit: Oh, and redo the crime system. I want NPCs to be able to go to jail or pay the fine rather than resisting arrest all the time and then getting killed. This way, Radiant AI could actually be used without "chaos" and the town soon being, well a ghost town with dead NPCs and guards.

That's all I can think of for now.

#94
BorgBucolic

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However, they are not the only ones guilty of this. Lets face it, the nifty graphics and sounds sells games. Appearance sells better than content. Who really buys the SI swimsuit edition for their articles? If I had to choose how game developement resources are spent, I'd go with what sells and let the modders fix the rest.

This would fall under the simple fact that humans are intrigued by shiny objects. However, as a sentient, thinking, game player. I have to say that they should at the very least to make it a very simple task to mod it. While Oblivion is much more mod-able than most other games available, it could still be much easier.


This assumes that their interest is in modular game design.

Take a look at the construction set. The very least is what they have done. (Ok, I'm being sarcastic.) :)

I haven't made any suggestions about what could be done to improve things, and I have numerous ideas. Considering the number of mods some people use, 100 or more, and things like OOO, modders have nearly
rewritten the game themselves. Bethesda doesn't need any discussion from us, all the have to do is cruise the mods already out there to get the idea.

Since Morrowind has many mods, it is evident that Bethesda does not have an interest in that.

#95
EKAU

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Let me ask a question first of all who have played MW.

If you improved three things in MW, graphics, AI, and combat. What sort of a game would you have?
Answer - an Oblivion killer.

To answer the questions that were posed.

Is it the game I was expecting, or hoping for : a resounding NO

Do I enjoy playing it ; only some what.

If I was the head developer : I would shoot myself ! , sorry just kidding ( smile ), hmm, on second thoughts, well maybe not just kidding.

I have played MW since it came out, and still am. Oblivion for four months, now I feel like the dog that caught the car ' now what do I do with it ' , but with MW, I just continue to play it.

Shivering Isles for me was a waste of money.

Now my two cents worth.

For me Oblivion over MW is only its graphics. Because I have played ES series of games since their inception, yes I am an old gamer, it seemed to me that Beth's were always on a up hill run from game to game, strength to strength.

But now with Oblivion, it seems as if they have tripped over, or at best had a bad stumble. Now they are on a severe down hill slide with this one.
The best they can hope for with Oblivion is that the moding community can save their collective butts. Although it will be tough even for the moders to do that because in lots of ways Beth's have ham strung them as well.

It seems to me that these days there is a game developers pub or club some where, where they meet every Friday night after work, for a few beers and a cigar or two, and to discuss the future games they are going to release.

If you look at some of the old favorites that have been around for years, their latest versions are only pretty graphics, and have gone down a similar road to Oblivion. Landmass has shrunk to the size of a postage stamp, and a small one at that, game play out the window, and very little thought given to other aspects of the game. As was mentioned before, how to get a ship out to sea, etc, and so on.

If you stop and think of all the years since MW was written, the experience gained by that, the hardware improvements and so on, and the best that Beth's can do is this.

Not to mention the bugs, if it was a bed, you would never sleep in it, without disinfecting it first.

All I can say for Oblivion is, go the moding community!, because without them, this one is down the...........

I guess that is my two cents worth for now ( smile ).

E.K

#96
ninja_lord666

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I haven't made any suggestions about what could be done to improve things, and I have numerous ideas. Considering the number of mods some people use, 100 or more, and things like OOO, modders have nearly
rewritten the game themselves. Bethesda doesn't need any discussion from us, all the have to do is cruise the mods already out there to get the idea.

Since Morrowind has many mods, it is evident that Bethesda does not have an interest in that.

Yes, they have even publicly stated that they don't use our mods. I don't know why; out mods better than anything they have come up with.

#97
Povuholo

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Yes, they have even publicly stated that they don't use our mods. I don't know why; out mods better than anything they have come up with.

Are you sure?

(SI fan interview)

16. What mods, if any, do you personally use? And why?
The BT interface mod of the PC. Thatís really the only one I use. I dabble in the others, but when I play Oblivion, Iím usually testing a new DLC or Shivering Isles, so running other stuff can really screw with them. Why BT mod? I can see more stuff on my giant PC monitor of course! Thatís something we messed with internally, but never had a nice solution for having the game switch between different menu configurations, so we went with the larger font for safety.



#98
Abramul

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Shouldn't testing cover some of the bigger categories of mods? Say, for instance, new races? Or new quests?

#99
SickleYield

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Silly kitty. You're attempting to use the rules of logic again. :D

#100
DragoonWraith

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Oblivion was a complete and utter disappointment for me.

Let me give you some background. I was completely obsessed with Morrowind. I logged many, many hundreds of hours on the game, and many times that many on the Elder Scrolls forums. I modded the game, I explored the lore, and I just thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of it. I was literally at the point where I was taking notes in class in Daedric. Morrowind is without a doubt my favorite game of all time.

What I loved about Morrowind was the setting, the atmosphere. The world was rich, deep, and at least for me, very believable. The factions interacted in intricate ways, the peoples had stories and backgrounds and it all seemed like a true other world. The mysteries in the game, the plots, the alliances and the hatreds, were fascinating. Made me feel like a true citizen of Tamriel.

Oblivion, on the other hand, is flat and shallow. There are no mysteries, no unsolved puzzles. There is absolutely no ambiguity in the game whatsoever. Add on to this myriad continuity problems, rampant disregard, and even apparent ignorance, of previous lore, and the fewer options for character customization, and you have a drastically inferior game. The quests were boring, the people were uninteresting, and the factions extraordinarily static and simplistic. Literally, the best thing about Oblivion, as far as I am concerned, is the scenery. Those forests look excellent. Other than that, there is nothing about the game that I really appreciate, at all.

Thanks to OBSE, modding in Oblivion is more interesting to me than it was in Morrowind, so I'm leaving Morrowind and its glorious memories behind, and I'm continuing on with the community that I loved from Morrowind and modding for Oblivion. However, I really don't think I'm going to play very much of Oblivion any longer, and I'm very unsure that I will ever buy another Bethesda product again.




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