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Hot Topic #1: The dumbing down of Oblivion


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#101
Hsandman_1

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#2: Get rid of all this voice acting nonsense - for major characters perhaps, but not every single NPC in the game. It's gimmicky and limits dialogue a lot.


I agree with the rest of the points most wholeheartedly, but have seen others point this one out too... and this post made some of the best/poignant arguments except for #2.

Thats why i just had to post reply :P

I disagree with this. I love the voice dialogue for every npc... kinda blew my mind that they managed to pull this off. I play with text dialogue disabled and find this to help with game immersion imensely.

True its hard for moders, but you still can have text dialogue with blank mp3's. And don't forget that <u>if</u> you can do/find voice talent for your moded npc's ... adds so much to game. Its like silent movies vs movie with sound.

Otherwise i agree with the rest of the points, handholding features and leveled gameplay are some of my bigest gripes about this otherwise <u>Brilliant</u> game.

Here is a hoping that the Bethesda will take all the top mods and and work them in the next oblivion update... Patches,content,Ai upgrades,combat tweeks, HUD tweeks, darkness tweeks, dual wield combat.... The whole damn lot! Its free.... The mods belong to Bethesda anyway so why not take them and polish them so it all fits in.. So much great weapon/armour/story that they wont need to make themselves . Add all this stuff to your next update? That is what people want. Just see which mods are being downloaded by the thousands... thats what people want. Why not take advantage of it? I played MW.. and i have to say that i like OB better... MW only was any good after installing mods.. what you remember is "moded" morrowind. They are both great games, but OB is next step up.. if Bethesda picks up on the mods then OB has bright future ahead of it. Edit: Well next Elder Scrolls game, as it seems there will be no more expansion packs for Oblivion after SI :( Console players will be the end of us all Only moding will save us ;D Amen!

#102
Twinfire

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Hi All!

Well, I think I may have figured out why Oblivion became a "dumbed down" gane.

It may not have anything to do with console vs. pc and the like.

The secret is that:

1) Oblivion's graphics are killer graphics -- for as long as we only have, say, 10-15 actors running around all of Tamriel.

2) But as soon as we add more actors to a given load-area, our fps drops to, say, 4-11 tops.

So Oblivion had to be "dumbed down" i.e. had to become a vast, empty container, because the "average" CPU + Graphics hardware available today simply can't handle anything more.

Even top-notch, super graphics cards will slow to a crawl with more than, say, 25 actors in a given load area.

TF

#103
Abramul

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That's more a matter of being scaled down, rather than dumbed down.

#104
Twinfire

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That's more a matter of being scaled down, rather than dumbed down.


Hi All!

Yes, it is.

But I think Oblivion became "dumbed down" precisely because it clearly was not "scaled down."

To give an idea of how fast parts of Oblivion can go, after adjusting my .ini file per Adiktive's suggestions, I find that when I go into the "Repair" menu my fps jumps from 35+ [in an interior] to 500+ -- for as long ast I remain in the menu.

Likewise when I do a wait.

The starting fps in "interior" areas get to be higher than in "exterior" areas, I suppose, because "interiors" are a lot smaller areas to manage. But even "interiors" slow to a crawl when more than 5-10 actors get up close and personal with our intrepid hero.

And I have a somewhat "fast" graphics card (Nvidia GeForce 7800 GS).

TF

#105
humorguy

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This is just part of a bigger trend. I blame Bethesda for much bigger things in my opinion, that was the way they did not tell the truth about minimum requirements, telling unwary gamers that they could play the game with their system when it would not be possible. That was diabolical and put PC gaming even more into the second-hand car selling type sleaze! The second was selling official mods in a crass way of making money! to pay for horse armour was patently a rip-off at even $2, because it ratcheted up the bigger mods! This is also part of a trend of giving us less for the same game price. As much as I love HL2, for example, I am not so blind as to see that 5 hour expansions selling for $20 retail is going to lead to more 12-15 hour $60 games rather than the 35 or so we have had for 15 years up to about 3 years ago.

Last year saw the smallest number of PC game releases. This year doesn't look like it will be much better. The over emphasis on graphics and the lessening of content is killing PC gaming in front of our very eyes. Oblivion and Bethesda are part and parcel of this problem. Why there was not an outcry over the dumbed down Oblivion like there was for Deus Ex 2 is about the fact there are fewer PC gamers who care. They have given up and are moving into console gaming (reluctantly), and independent games and retro games that they know have the gameplay they don't see in modern PC games. You only have to look at the growth in 'abandonware' sites and the opening last year of the ebay retro section to see where the interest is going. And what major PC gaming site and magazine doesn't talk about the growth in inde gaming? In fact the huge success of the Wii is as much about a resurgance in retro style gaming as it is about the control sticks!

If Fallout 3 is dumber still, and other PC games continue to go down this route of less gameplaying hours for the dollar, I can see PC gaming coming to a quiet close sometime in 2009. As a 20+ year PC gamer, that saddens me.

There are plenty of warning voices out there. You should start opening your eyes as a PC gamer! This blog is a good start:

http://www.raphkoste...-next-next-gen/

#106
crazydave

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Here is a hoping that the Bethesda will take all the top mods and and work them in the next oblivion update... Patches,content,Ai upgrades,combat tweeks, HUD tweeks, darkness tweeks, dual wield combat.... The whole damn lot! Its free.... The mods belong to Bethesda anyway so why not take them and polish them so it all fits in.. So much great weapon/armour/story that they wont need to make themselves .


For starter they only own the plugin file, all custom textures, meshes, and animations belong to thier creator. Secondly if bethsofts next move was to take all the great mods you can get for free, stick them together, and make us pay for them, the modding community would more than likely revolt. If Bethesda ever gets that lazy, I think people would stop buying thier games, I know I would.

#107
Hsandman_1

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Here is a hoping that the Bethesda will take all the top mods and and work them in the next oblivion update... Patches,content,Ai upgrades,combat tweeks, HUD tweeks, darkness tweeks, dual wield combat.... The whole damn lot! Its free.... The mods belong to Bethesda anyway so why not take them and polish them so it all fits in.. So much great weapon/armour/story that they wont need to make themselves .


For starter they only own the plugin file, all custom textures, meshes, and animations belong to thier creator. Secondly if bethsofts next move was to take all the great mods you can get for free, stick them together, and make us pay for them, the modding community would more than likely revolt. If Bethesda ever gets that lazy, I think people would stop buying thier games, I know I would.


Not if they organised and made it all work gave creators something for all that work if they selected it .. guess its too much for them to bother anyway,but there are lots of plugins that are incompatible with each other or unfinished, where moders themselves cant finish it because need extra animations (dualwield,backstab,horsebackcombat,adrenaline fuled combat, lots of others that could use profesional resources such as voice acting etc. ) The moders that do it out of love for the game can only go so far.

I certainly would pay for it if they also added lots of their own content as well and did good job with the game. Guess individual moders would have their own opinion on this as it is with everything, there are certainly some realy talanted people who made great mods for this game for nothing, but thank you.

I loved how Bauldurs gate guys listened to the fans and made one of the best games story/gameplay wise in rpg. Elder Scrolls could be next bauldurs gate if only...

I was under impresion that Bethesda owned all conted created with the TES. Guess i was wrong :)

find that when I go into the "Repair" menu my fps jumps from 35+ [in an interior] to 500+ -- for as long ast I remain in the menu.

Likewise when I do a wait.


Thats because you have V.Sync disabled in OB options. The fps are not synced to your monitor refresh rate.

Anyway.. geting off topic :rolleyes:

#108
Povuholo

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I was under impresion that Bethesda owned all conted created with the TES. Guess i was wrong :)

I think you mean CS, not TES.
TES=The Elder Scrolls
CS=Construction Set

You're right, they own all the content made in the CS. But you don't make custom textures, meshes, and animations in the CS, you have to use other programs for that.

#109
BenRGamer

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Well, I love Oblivion, and I regard it's so-called 'dumbed down' form a pro, not a con. It makes it easier to focus on the game than on dozens of menial skills, however, a few things did disappoint, namely the removal of Crossbows, along with the Unarmored skill. That was the only truly useful skill that was removed.

#110
Twinfire

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They have given up and are moving into console gaming (reluctantly), and independent games and retro games that they know have the gameplay they don't see in modern PC games. You only have to look at the growth in 'abandonware' sites and the opening last year of the ebay retro section to see where the interest is going. And what major PC gaming site and magazine doesn't talk about the growth in inde gaming? In fact the huge success of the Wii is as much about a resurgance in retro style gaming as it is about the control sticks!

http://www.raphkoste...-next-next-gen/


Thanks for the tip about abandonware. :)

I did a google search on "abaondonware" and got quite a few - 3.6 million - hits.

Can't wait to try out King's Quest and DosBox on my NT2000 Pro.

TF




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