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Hot Topic #1: The dumbing down of Oblivion


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#111
Hsandman_1

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I was under impresion that Bethesda owned all conted created with the TES. Guess i was wrong :)

I think you mean CS, not TES.
TES=The Elder Scrolls
CS=Construction Set

You're right, they own all the content made in the CS. But you don't make custom textures, meshes, and animations in the CS, you have to use other programs for that.



Thanks i was a bit confused on that .. i thought the construction set for oblivion was called TES ;/ and CS was used for counter strike :unsure: damn bbqhaxMWOBTESCSSI.. abreviations! ;D

#112
prometheos

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Is Oblivion the game you were hoping for?

My first impressions of Oblivion, left me breathless. The musical score was rousing, the vistas and the landscape's vertical scaling were awe inspiring and the individual blades of grass and the leaves on the trees rounded out the stunning graphics. I mused that Bethesda had finally created a game that would be difficult for any software house to top. However, my character had just emerged into the light, out of the prison sewer and my anticipation of the all the great things to come was at its keenest. It took about 10 hours of gameplay to finally admit to myself, that something was seriously wrong with the game. I knew my character was leveling too quickly, but it hardly seemed to matter. I knew that my character could defeat every "baddy" and villain, that she came across, and this tiny breton mage could cripple massive Ogres with her puny 10 point flame spell. As a veteran of Morrowind, I was expecting great things for this beautiful breathtaking game, but instead of a wonderful new RPG, they sold me a console shooter. That's right - a console first person shooter, done with flame spells and melee weaponry. Choices, concerning race, faction affiliation, moral alignment, and initial skill sets, all seem watered down, made irrelevant or were simply excised from the game. This was the absolute "best" part of Morrowind -- the Choices. That's why I love the RPG format and don't care so much for the FPS format. It's the choice in character development that engages me. Why would Bethesda, with their great track record of telling superb stories in the RPG format, suddenly diminish the primary attraction of the RPG - the Role Playing??? That was a helluva disappointment, ladies and gentlemen.

Do you enjoy playing it.

Of course, I enjoy playing it. Who wouldn't? It's still a pleasure to watch a sunrise, from the vantage point of the mountains near Azura's Shrine. I wait there panning the horizon until all the shadows diminish and the disc of the sun clears the ridge top to the east. At moments like that, I'm actually in Cyrodiil on that narrow ridge road, gathering my thoughts and planning my future. I've done similar in "real world" locations, and except for the missing thirst, the heat, and the breeze, the emotional feeling is about the same.

If you were lead developer of Bethesda, what specific, major changes would you make to the game that you think would improve it?

First, they've got to keep their best people on the bug problem. Hire a really good code troubleshooter. They can save your entire project, especially, when they come in late in the development cycle with fresh eyes and no vested interest in the "existing code". Any "Code Functions" that are enabled for the Mod community, must be "bullet proof". It looks very bad for the Bethesda code team when a scripter, using Bethesda Script Functions, can put a permanent bug in a "save game". That is absolutely shameful.
Return to core values. I believe, that Bethesda can tell a good story if they want to. The Shivering Isles expansion, tells a damn good tale and does it with humour and style and provides the occasional "dread" moment when you believe your character might get killed. Those "dread" moments, seem to be totally missing from the original release of the game, and and need to be there more often. Shivering Isles, also allows the player to make a "choice" or two in the game world. While it doesn't make much difference to the plot line, I still applaud this attempt by the writers to "sneak in" this role playing device in a development environment overseen by "console shooter" lovers and trigger finger jockeys.
The Developers could also, remind their designers, that everything that has mass on a planet also has weight. Apparently, torches, gold, and quest items are not affected by gravity, and while I'm not against zero-weight items, I need a logical explanation for it. Use the "Lore" - sell us a spell or enchantment or something. Otherwise, we'll start to believe some of the bad things they're saying about you.
The rest of this thread covers most of what I wanted to add. However, I really want the return of the "factions", "race hatreds", "religious affiliations", and all the consequence of belonging to one or none. Allowing plot-lines to be denied because of the Choices that the player makes is of primary importance to an RPG. That is the missing "soul", that is the heart of the The Elder Scrolls franchise. Please, Bethesda Developer, return to us our beloved RPG. :D

#113
McTrooper240

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I enjoy it for what it is. In fact, I bought it for the 360 a week ago just so I could play up in my room. (I've owned the PC version since the day it came out).

Hmmm, if I were a lead developer at Bethesda I would have tried to find a way to "take over" homes once you killed the occupants. You know, so you could store your stuff there safely.

#114
Arkmier

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If i would change anything, the first thing i would do is allow you to use weapons while on a mount.

#115
FoxhoundCommander

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I got my hands on Morrowind before it was released in Australia. Back then i didn't know much about "RPG's" or anything like that. The game was amazing for it's time, i just enjoyed it that much for about 5 years.
But when it came to oblivion. I loved it for awhile. And as people havesaid, just felt it lacked in a lot of areas.

some things i liked:
Good graphics (duh)
a lot of fun quests and guild story lines (Eg: the DB storyline)
The voice acting was a cool thing to see.


But. I was dissapointed at the dark elves of all races. In morrowind they were gruff and nasty, badass elves. Oblivion set them down to the standards of Wood elves and High elves. Even though i am pleased that wood elves are *slightly* less annoying. It was just not fun. Orcs also really pissed me off with their voices.

I think voice acting needed more thought put into it. and used ONLY in The main storyline. Because then they wouldn't have wasted so much time with it. The Dark Brotherhood was an awesome guild to play through. Had an excellent story and was actually "Thrilling" at times. However the Mages guild and fighters guilds just got left out in the cold. Thieves was slightly better but was annoying at times.

I won't name the other more obvious issues with oblivion. But my gripe with the story was that it was ok but. It was far to short. by the time finished Oblivions story i would be up to getting named by the ashlands or hortator of the great houses in Morrowind.

Dungeons wern't to bad but the lack of the thrill of finding uniques and other treasures was bit hard at times. Archutecture annoyed me. It looked fine but Tribunal's idea of the buildings etc lead you to believe all of the imperial city and towns looked exotic and fantasy like. Instead i found my self standing in england style houses Etc.

The fast travel map was good but defeated the purpose of horses.

It would have worked better if you could "Target" places you have found on the map and ride there etc. And mage teleportation from town to town would have been really good for town to town traveling.

that's my say on the topic.

#116
CloudVvulf

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i think the dumbing down of Oblivion was a good thing. most people who b*tch about the dumbing down of oblivion should get a life! :P its only a game! take deep breaths and count slowly backwards from 10. morowind isnt that good a game, the graphics are ok but the npcs and my character look like mangled puppets and i hated the fact that there was a npc that could look exactly like my character if i didnt use a mod. the armour in morowind was completely ugly. its reali easily to combine some pieces of armor in oblivion, chainmail steel iron blackwood and mythril work well together and you can always use clothes with armour eg the cuirass cut from db armour and black wide pants look good together too

!!! I have spoken !!!

#117
Povuholo

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If i would change anything, the first thing i would do is allow you to use weapons while on a mount.

V3.3 of Deadly Reflex will have mounted combat. I don't think mounted combat has the highest priority when it comes to... undumbing/smartening ( :rolleyes: ) Oblivion though.

a lot of fun quests and guild story lines (Eg: the DB storyline)

Of course the DB is the only good example. The thieves guild was okay too, but the rest was pretty much the same. Kill! fetch!

#118
Hsandman_1

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I enjoy it for what it is. In fact, I bought it for the 360 a week ago just so I could play up in my room. (I've owned the PC version since the day it came out).

Hmmm, if I were a lead developer at Bethesda I would have tried to find a way to "take over" homes once you killed the occupants. You know, so you could store your stuff there safely.


What? Like adding bird flu virus or antrax to console cd package with a clause: "By using this product you agree to leave your house and belongings to Bethesda in case of your untimely demise. Bethesda will not be held liable for any reason."? Sounds like good idea! Posted Image

Guess you are the target market for the tommorow games. :P

#119
riddiam

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Hi it's me again (the only guy who didn't have a con against oblivion) and i wanted to say that maybe you are right:

Morrowind:

Cons: bad graphics, bad combat system.....
Pros: more quests, more factions more......

Oblivion:

Cons: VERY GOOD graphics, a great combat system......
Pros: a lot of things were cut down from morrowind...

Conclusion: We need a Oblwind

#120
Povuholo

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Oblivion:

Cons: VERY GOOD graphics, a great combat system......
Pros: a lot of things were cut down from morrowind...

Conclusion: We need a Oblwind

I think you mixed up the word Pros and Cons there :D

And the graphics of Morrowind only suck because they are 5 years old. I didn't buy it at its release (I bought it in mid 05 or so) so I wouldn't know for sure, but I think the graphics were pretty awesome at its release. Heck, I thought it was a brand new game when I bought it. :happy:




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