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Father, Shaun, and the Institute

father shaun institute story theory

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#51
tomomi1922

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Father DID anticipate your coming in, and had already sent emails around about it, if you read the Institute terminals. He also knows that you've already had contact with the Railroad, and again informed the department heads about it.

So, yeah, the whole "surprise" encounter was scripted to heck and back, so to speak.

 

Yep.  So I think it was not hard to set up something like a conspiracy theory.  Institute population is very small.  I counted some 20 scientists (which means it should represent some 100+), the smallest faction in the game I must say.  The rest of the synth can be rigged by programming to say what they said.  But I was very delighted seeing how they assemble the skeleton and basically 3D print the organs and muscles onto the body.  They create 1 bio synth every 2 minute.  At this rate, within 1 year, they can have an army as big as prewar US army and overrun the entire Commonwealth.   And the only way to stop them is to get the mass kill switch (like iRobot). 

Some 300 Minuteman, 600 BOS, 50 Railroad vs about 2 million Institute troopers.  Clone War!!!  If the game can handle it, I probably build about some 100 gun turrets peer settlement if such event happens.  But even that will be doomed because Institute is unlikely with just foot soldiers.  A few artillery shots and even the Castle top wall will be leveled. 

Anyway, I am having too much fun, gonna calm down now.



#52

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I don't have much of a theory.. my opinion is,was and will be.. kill all synths..Nuke the institute,burn the grounds down and salt the earth.. the Institute is the most scaring thing i've ever encountered,in real life as well in games..never mind crazy gods,psycothic demons,wacked ourt emperors or plain real life dictators,Ragheads and assorted forms of megalomaniacs.. this... Oh,my freakin God.....OK,I get it science rules and the wonders it created is..wow... but,really,killing people to prove a theory?,letting loose a slew of homicidical robots just to see what happens?... deciding that the progress you've made in your ,self,imposed,isolation is NOT fit to benefit the masses,scrounging out a life in the shanty-towns they call cities??... and the completely detached way of ordering the murders of,ABSOLUTE,innocents... ???.. but i get it.. Bethesda wanted us to be jerks..so the Institute represents Logic.. in my world it´s obscene but hey,science right??

The Railroad is all about helping the oppressed,sort of like todays "social justice warriors".. people who cannot exist without an enemy and would not,could not give a s*** about real peoples problems.. on account that they are driven by i "Higher goal" which,roughly,translates to,i am a spoiled brat and,therefore,have to fight(in words only) for something i think will get me laid...

the Minutemen is... oh,where to start and where to end... It´s a great idea!! one i support wholeheartedly.. but i know people and ,folks,this ain´t gonna happen...Freedom is NOT FREAKING FREE!!!!!!

and the idea of volunteers banding together in times of crisis...well that died..in Boston.. because,boys and girls,LEADERSHIP!!!!...and i'll say it again... LEADERSHIP!!!.. the Minutemen has,No plan,No ressources,NO,freaking NO,LEADERSHIP!!!!... except Garvey and yours truly..which means theyr´re f**ked..cause Garvey sure as hell ain´t never gonna give an order to noone(except yours truly) and leadership is like... naaah man?? why´dyou have to be so rude???

So the best chance for humanity falls to(tadaah,drumroll,banners unfurling and Lena Riefenstahl filming) THE BROTHERHOOD... which means that logic dictates that all the Best efforts of Bethesda(and media in general) fails..(aw,sheit maaan,that was uncalled for) but theres the rub..the Brotherhood is exactly what happened in Europe(remember us yanks? your ancestors) people banded together,found leadership,someone who was willing to do the messy,killy,dismemberment,torture crap they much rather be without..and i t worked!!,hey presto we skip right trough the centuries and arrive at the Rennaiscence..Science,art,hell,even the thought that one man ,one vote,flourishes..why?? you ask me this ,you heathen???..because safety breeds stability,which breeds ingenuity,which breeds philosophy which breeds all that crap that f**ked the world over,time and time again..but,if..you want a society closely resembling the twisted,egotistical,selfish,"I AM ENTITLED" world of today.. Go Brotherhood.. it will take a couple hundred years but hey...between extinction of the human race and the possibility of a future..it´s not a that hard...



#53
Moraelin

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I don't think science and logic are polar opposites to empathy. Many people go study for example medical science to help other people.

And even logic, there are enough schools of philosophy that, IF you accept the axioms, make a very sound logical case for basically being nice.

E.g., enlightened self interest, meaning basically that what goes around comes around. So to speak. Basically, a society where people help each other means that you too benefit from other people's help. So essentially contributing to that kind of society is in your own interest too. Very over-simplified, but you get the idea.

E.g., utilitarianism, or basically maximizing the happiness of society as a whole. If you're a group or society or culture, on the whole you're better off with courses of action that make more people happier.

And it's not hard to make a case that even in the Institute's case, there are good logical reasons for why a less a**hole approach would have been more beneficial. And people have been making such cases since the game started. And not just why they didn't have to lose a whole bunch of pre-war DNA and knowledge by killing everyone in Vault 111. I mean, even if they didn't exterminate University Point, they might have gotten the data they wanted there. As it is, they just killed everyone and DIDN'T get the data, because everyone who could help dig it up was dead.

Even the one chance of getting turned into a crater in the game, ultimately hinges on their being needlessly assholes to the one person who can tip the balance, the PC. So there was nothing logical or scientific about that. It actually drastically increases the chances of being wiped out, for the sole benefit of a pointless experiment that brings no tangible benefits. If you plug the rewards/penalties and probabilities into basic game theory, not only that course of action isn't logical, but it's downright idiotic.

And they don't just do that before realizing that you're the biggest threat or asset they ever faced. Even AFTER it should have been amply clear that basic game theory maths says it's not a good idea, Father keeps rubbing salt in the wounds. WTH? There's nothing either logical or scientific there, it's just idiocy.

So yeah, I don't get the "I get it, it's science and cold logic" from it at all. It's a bunch of self-entitled rationalization, not logic, and definitely not science.

#54
RelicDuDe

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Well.. for Mandy, (my PC)  it was all really simple... The Institute was an enemy, they tried to kill her on many occasions... Would have been easy programming robots not to, right ?...

Besides.. human-like robots aren't a good idea.. most of us know what happened to the Quarians..

 

The Brotherhood of steel is out also, because she heard what "befehl ist befehl.." could lead to.. one to many times before from her now dead grandfather... and consequently, she doesn't take orders from anyone.

You could say times have changed.. but war never changes.

 

The Rail-road are a creepy bunch of idealists.. Mandy agrees with Virgil on this, now its synths.. but before you know it, they will try to liberate vending machines... there is no end to the weirdness of these people... They need Prozac.. a lot of it.

 

And the ironicly named "Father" ... who really is Son ?..  

 

On their first meeting, Mandy never said a word to "Father" .. she just opened fire, and killed him on the spot. "Father" hit the floor before he could say a word..  why ?

 

She read his terminal, where he said:  "i can not afford to let emotion get in the way.. I must simply observe and record..."  when writing about her.. so he would purposely never lift a finger to protect his own mother... he wasn't her son any-more... there was only one thing he would need from Mandy.

 

So Mandy agreed.. he wasn't worth talking to. and she herself did not let emotion get in the way either.. She paid "Father"  what he was due... bullet in the face.. and walked out again.

 

When someone said;  "You killed your own son.." Mandy replied:  "I do not have a son.."



#55
Jasemyne

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Cause and Effect. Causality.

None of the four game faction has ever given my other me a salute by a gun dispute as the inevitable answer to kill missions accepted by the player w/o questioning, at least up to now and the char is at level 85 already. With Tactical Thinking (BoS), Precipice of War (Railroad) and End of the Line (Institute) active in the pipboy I have reached the Event Horizon of the game with the more or less radioactive Black Hole of Bethesda's hardline endgame in sight. Enough time to get to know the mentality of the different factions, their self-justifying agendas and selfish actions on the grid, their effective propaganda and the resulting brainwashing of the people of the Commonwealth. Having said that, I think I have made the right decision, that is not to decide anything while my char is still in the cryogenic tank for some sixty years or so and the preceding loading screen has told me that the Institute would be commonly understood as the "bogeyman" in game. I, for one, dislike any brainwashing... and allegedly commonly accepted Wastelander animal sex or whateva as well. And that's that!







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