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Brotherhood Overhaul (Conceptual Stage)


Vaernus

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Brotherhood Overhaul

 

Mod Updated: 12/29/2015

Design Document Updated: 1/3/2016

 

Design Document (anyone can comment):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XD36S5yhUpp9p1o4UyYLp1JSd1OyMUpS3eqdZZTPA5s/edit?usp=sharing

 

Production/Team Document (anyone can view):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ubQEa5hGgtGedksc5AtWIoG4zGjw_W659v_RIN8GrSE/edit?usp=sharing

 

Foreword:

So after playing the game, I came to the conclusion that the Brotherhood (and frankly all factions) can have a lot more defined for them both during and after the main quest. Considering I have gone the Brotherhood route twice, I wanted to focus on overhauling their faction first, while providing benefits for anyone playing as the other factions. The results are the Brotherhood Overhaul.

 

Brotherhood Overhaul will revamp the Brotherhood Of Steel to provide more functionality for their faction both during and after their main quest is complete. These adjustments will also provide additional gameplay when making them your enemy. Obviously this will contain spoilers if you have not completed the Brotherhood storyline (and if you haven't, shame on you because the Institute, Railroad, and Minutemen have nothing on the BOS). Most likely there will be spoilers in the thread as well, so you've been warned!

 

I've already made progress below but I don't feel its made enough progress before uploading to Nexus as I really want to create most of the functionality in an alpha state before its ready. It will need GECK before that is possible unless scripting can be cracked early. However, if everyone feels the following is enough to try out, I will consider it. Still chipping away at what can be done with FO4Edit and Nifskope.

 

Currently Implemented:

  1. Since vertibirds were gained from the Enclave in Adams Air Force base, they should be firing gatling lasers on the front, have missile launchers, and the bomb rack for mini nukes. The side minigun would be the same, but even with a redesign, why would they lose weaponry? Gatling lasers added to front in place of the two miniguns. Have also properly updated the vertibirds so they play the gatling laser sounds. However they seem to only fire off the gatling laser shots every second, so a WIP. Still figuring out the missile launchers and bomb racks.
  2. Vertibirds die way too much. These are large vehicles that should not be taken down by pistols. You'd need a missile launcher, mini nuke, or heavy machine gun to damage these suckers in any capacity. Fixed that for you by increasing the strength of any vertibird found, and giving better health to pilots (who seemed to easily die).
  3. Pilots were not wearing their proper bomber jackets due to having two suits. Fixed that.
  4. They took over Adams Air Force base, arguably finding the T60 armor suits they wear, but they should have fully working Enclave armor suits available. It was confusing that in Fallout 3, nobody is wearing a few of the higher quality Advanced Power Armor (X01) suits from Fallout 2, and the new mark 2 suits are inferior to T51 (with Hellfire matching T51 in usefulness). Add the ability for high ranking BOS members (Elder, Sentinel, Star Paladin, Paladin Commander) to be wearing BOS-based X01 suits instead of T60 with proper look and rank paint jobs (and give the player the ability to use said paint jobs). Shoutout to Hocter for his fantastic paintjob textures for X01 (if you don't like Brotherhood Overhaul, definitely try out these textures for your X01 suit at http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/796/?).
  5. Why can the player only use Knight, Paladin, and Sentinel paint jobs? Unlocked Initiate, Standard, Knight Sergeant, Knight Captain, and Officer paint jobs for T60.
  6. BOS combat helmets have the light on the top but it does not function. Partially fixed that, though it needs a lot more work to fully resolve. At least the light is sort of at the right area, but its a hack until I can rip apart the Combat Helmet and set it up similarly to the Mining Helmet. Looks like it still needs some more work to get the headlamp modding portion working properly.
  7. Adjusted various BOS location encounter zones to max level of 99. Made them all non-reset. Created a nice situation where the ghouls attacked Boston Airport. Will pair nicely when all the main BOS areas are beefed up.

Patch Included:

  1. Armorsmith Extended - All I'm using currently. Ensures the combat helmets still work properly with the changes in Armorsmith Extended while still allowing the mounted light to function and be modded.

Planned Features:

  • Proper initiation into the Brotherhood upon arriving on the Prydwen.
  • Multiple new vertibird features including: vertibirds aren't made of paper and utilize the weaponry seen in Fallout 3, you can pilot a vertibird, you can call in vertibirds for an attack run or to drop off a squad of BoS troops, and vertibird support at various portions of the main quest where applicable.
  • X-01 suits with proper paint jobs worn by high ranking members (and you can use the paintjobs).
  • All T-60 BoS paintjobs unlocked for use by player.
  • Companions disguised while wearing full power armor suit to alleviate Danse hostility.
  • New voiced Paladin companion that does not come with the Danse baggage and coordinates nearly all new functionality (unless we somehow can get the voice actors for the BoS key players to do this, or find folks that can match their voices).
  • Headlamps on combat helmet work properly.
  • New combat system that dynamically defines a threat level for hostile locations, and uses these threat levels to attack nearby settlements intelligently.
  • Various BoS holdings can be attacked and lost such as the Prydwen, Boston Airport, Cambridge Police Station, and Fort Strong (which actually has BoS members there now as mentioned by Maxson).
  • These locations are also workshop-compatible to tweak their defenses and attach them to trade routes which provides various benefits. Boston Airport encompasses entire area now.
  • Various locations can be taken over by the BoS including defining a new HQ in military bases or vaults.
  • More BoS missions including assaults, salvage operations, and defending attacks from combat system. Coordinated via the new Paladin NPC, with the player either being assigned these, or directly coordinating the moves as Sentinel.
  • The Yangtze can be taken over providing a new avenue for assaulting someone with tactical nukes (with the signals behind sold by Teagan), and the beginnings of the BoS Navy.
  • Settlements fully support the BoS operations and have various tweaks like a proper UI, sponsorship for new settlers into the BoS, resources being utilized by the entire BoS, and active/passive benefits to nearby BoS operations based on how well each settlement/forward base is functioning.
  • New actions in settlements allowing settlers/BoS members to actively create objects for you.
  • New Liberty Prime patrol going through the super mutant infested areas of Boston. Every red-blooded American should support this patrol to wipe out the red menace!
  • New post-MQ scenario with the Minutemen that can involve either turning them into a BoS militia, wiping out The Castle, or a total war between both sides that could result in the destruction of the Prydwen.
  • Potential for both Railroad and Institute endings of the BoS playing out throughout the MQ, with the ability for the player to counter them.
  • Danse cut mission *may* get plugged back in if it does not completely break the MQ and there's enough voiced assets to accomplish it.
  • Central mission framework to allow additional missions to be added to any faction (with the Brotherhood being the guinea for now). Mod authors can hook into the module (which will be a separate master), design out their quest mod however they like (if you want to setup a new worldspace, and work with the Brotherhood, you could have them be able to fly you out to/from it and incorporate vertibird features into your mod), and then determine what sort of effects the mod should accomplish for that and other factions when completed (increased rewards, hostile relations, new HQ/base/salvage opportunities, new NPCs, new weapons/armor added to troops, etc). If possible, our voice actors will also add the appropriate voice acting to the NPCs directly in the overhaul handling the missions based on your direction.

Credits:

  1. Fallout 4 by Bethesda Game Studios (naturally)
  2. FO4Edit by ElminsterAU and updates by Hlp, Zilav, and Sharlikran.
  3. Nifskope by Corwin
  4. Deba2 by DigitialUtopia1
  5. Brotherhood of Steel Paintjobs for X-01 Power Armor by Hocter.

Pairs Nicely With:

  1. More Spawns by Varx
  2. We Are The Minutemen by TheFirstEnD
  3. Armorsmith Extended by Gambit77

If anyone wants to join the team building this, or has any input on accomplishing many of these goals now or in the future (or simply wants to critique the goals on here), feel free to reach out to me or respond on here. Chances are some of these features can be knocked out via FO4Edit pre-CK, and I'm just overlooking where I can accomplish them.

 

Ad Victoriam!

Edited by Vaernus
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I think this MIGHT be relevant to your overhaul? While it doesn't do anything massively to the end-game of being with the Brotherhood, it might go well with the whole feel of actually JOINING the Brotherhood in a meaningful way. And, if you're redecorating the Airport, adding extra cells for the stuff in that link might not be required. (Bonus points if you can watch NPCs clearing the assault course?) In fact, given that you intend to have a voiced Paladin, why not have that be the same Paladin as the one that oversees your "right to wear Power Armor" test/training? It might bring things nicely full circle - they're there when you start and there when you finish.

 

I'd like to offer my help, but I'm not much good at anything except spewing ideas / concepts out of my head at random.

 

Also, is there any way to convert player settlements into "Forward Bases" for the Brotherhood? Even the farming ones - have them as farming communities under the protection of the BoS. However, this might need some BoS themed snappable settlement objects to construct BoS bases. I love building settlements, but I'd love building bases even more.

 

 

Finally, this.

 

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Danse#Behind_the_scenes

 

Unused dialogue suggests that Paladin Danse and the Sole Survivor were originally able challenge Maxson's authority as Elder through combat according to "the Litany". Through his defeat, it would have allowed Danse to regain his status as Paladin and grant the Sole Survivor the rank of Elder within the Brotherhood.

 

It seems like killing him without turning the Broterhood hostile WAS intended to be an option, but it got cut from the release product. I don't think that anyone has found the matching Maxson lines for this yet, if they're there at all.

 

 

 

 

And, because my brain is still busy hyper-vomiting ideas...

 

An alternate ending / 'use' for the Railroad.

a] PC wipes out the Institute

b] The PC and Brotherhood of Steel "Ally" with the Railroad

c] The BoS starts rounding up all known Gen3 synths in a census and categorising them. Maybe even scanning for them, like vets scan for microchips in pets. "For their own safety." because "Many people still hate you, we can protect you."

d] All Gen3 Synths are now privately declared property of the BoS, as examples of technology, to be constantly monitored and controlled.

e] Synths are now second class citizens, 'belonging' to the Institute. But as the Institute doesn't have any sort of democracy at a civilian level, it's not like they miss out on voting rights or anything.

f] Synths work as civilians. On farms, producing for the BoS, or as researchers, whatever. They get protected by the BoS as a resource, and maintained as such, but not treated as people.

g] Potentially, Synths can join the BoS as soldiers. But they are still monitored, never trusted, and undergo monthly rigorous psych tests. They cannot be promoted past a certain rank. They're probably given the bad missions, too. The ones where you don't care if they die.

h] Alternate Ending for Danse: Paladin Danse remains a Paladin, but can never be promoted further. Very few members of the Brotherhood trust him, he gets whispered remarks wherever he goes. But hey, he still gets to be a Loyal Soldier, so I guess he's sort of happy?

i] DefinitelyNotCommissar people to monitor the synths?

 

Ack, make the ideas stop!

 

Plastic Witch Hunt:

After the Brotherhood's reaction to Paladin Danse's big reveal is noted (exiled / killed), certain people realise that they have a new, great way to hurt the Brotherhood: to accuse BoS members of being synths. The BoS, in their hatred of synths and general mistrust, is quick to execute these people labelled as synths. By luck (or design) one of those accused genuinely is a revealed as a synth, post mortem. The others? Normal humans. However, the BoS cannot afford to not investigate these accusations. An infiltrator within the Prydwen is planting incriminating evidence on members of the Brotherhood, sewing mistrust and fear within the ranks.

 

It is up to you to get to the bottom of this mystery. How many synths are there within the Brotherhood? Is there really a synth infestation, or is this the Salem Witch Trials all over again? It's time to put on your detective Power Helmet.

 

Potentially, the deeper you go down this rabbit hole, the more it is revealed that some of the BoS synths are genuine memory wiped synths working honestly and devotedly for the BoS. They are unaware of their own identity. What should be done with these people? ARE they people? What does this mean for the Brotherhood and their stance on Synths?

 

 

 

 

I keep hinging stuff on Danse. I guess I'm a sucker for the stoic type. But in some ways, from a narrative perspective, it allows the plotline to integrate into the existing world. And, given his somewhat unique circumstances, I feel there's a lot of exploration into what it means to be a Synth and what it means to be loyal to the Brotherhood. Even to the point of pretty much discarding ones own life. There's so much potential for aftershocks that Bethesda missed there.

 

That and I'm super miffed that I can go full Brotherhood on my character, but doing so prevents me from having a Brotherhood companion. I want to go out into the Commonwealth and kick ass in the name of the Brotherhood beside a fellow Brotherhood soldier. But the quest line of becoming a Paladin in the Brotherhood deprives me of what I feel to be the most important part of feeling like part of the Brotherhood - bros in Power Armor stomping around delivering steely justice.

 

Edited by Athanasa
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What i'd love to see is the possibility of changing your relationship to the BoS if you are also the minuteman general. It's completely bonkers that neither side attempts to exploit this relationship; If the player is already the general when attempting to start 'Under the Shadow of steel' (sorry forget the exact name) rather than begin a standard recruitment process the player is summoned to a meeting where the BoS makes unreasonable demands of the player (ie leave the minutemen or turn them other to the BoS as an ancillary force), the player then negotiates an alliance where charisma/intelligence checks can get the minutemen more favorable terms.

 

BoS demands could be

Food/ Water (drains the settlement network of x resources)

Hospitality at the settlements (increases bed requirements, BoS patrol teams occasionally visit)

Intelligence on institute activity and rights to commonwealth technology (roleplaying sop, costs the player nothing)

Manpower (occasionally see scribes accompanying minuteman patrols)

 

Minuteman Demands

Training: opens a firing range nearby the airport where minutemen can be seen training with brotherhood supervision. Minutemen level with player

Equipment: MInutemen get a slight increase in equipment quality; fewer pipe weapons, more combat rifles, 44's. Better muskets and hunting rifles.

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If the player is already the general when attempting to start 'Under the Shadow of steel' (sorry forget the exact name) rather than begin a standard recruitment process the player is summoned to a meeting where the BoS makes unreasonable demands of the player (ie leave the minutemen or turn them other to the BoS as an ancillary force), the player then negotiates an alliance where charisma/intelligence checks can get the minutemen more favorable terms.

 

Or start more reasonably from the beginning. The BoS enters the commonwealth on a giant TOTALLY PEACEFUL SHIP, saying they're here to help the Commonwealth, to win hearts and minds. So why don't they follow it up in their PR campaign? Assuming the character is a BoS sympathiser, which I assume you would be if you had this mod. Instead of demands, it's a 'nice',

 

"I think we can work together for mutual benefit. We want to destroy the Institute, and we need to win hearts and minds to do this. You already have the peoples support, General. We would like to offer our support to the people, in return for you supporting us."

 

Provide the BoS with food and water for them sending vertibirds to deal with Settlement raids so you don't have to, and conspicuous guards in Power Armor at your settlements "here to protect the Commonwealth". You give them food and water, they help your settlements stay alive... and maybe get to build some sweet BoS style defenses into your settlements for flavour.

 

Oh, and the BoS gives you the flares to call down VertiBirds to be taxis. Because what says badass better than the Minutemen General flying over to check on your tiny farming settlement in a tilt-wing gunship before jumping out in power armor? "I brought some new turrets and defenses for the base. Keep up the good work everyone." And then General Badass gets back into the VertiBird and heads to the next settlement.

 

The BoS now has its greatest ally in the 'Hearts and Minds' front - the Errand Boy 'General' (Preston throws that one at you stupidly early) of the Minutemen and Knight / Paladin of the Brotherhood, working to make the Commonwealth a Better Place™. And also an 'honorary' member of the Brotherhood themselves.

 

 

If you've already joined the BoS with the field-promotion to Initiate, Danse has already passed his report on your combat ability and recommendation up the ranks. The BoS itself has done its fieldwork and research on the Minutemen. So now you have not only Danse's recommendation, you provide the BoS an actual genuine use. It at least explains why they're so quick to take you aboard.

 

Edited by Athanasa
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I think this MIGHT be relevant to your overhaul? While it doesn't do anything massively to the end-game of being with the Brotherhood, it might go well with the whole feel of actually JOINING the Brotherhood in a meaningful way. And, if you're redecorating the Airport, adding extra cells for the stuff in that link might not be required. (Bonus points if you can watch NPCs clearing the assault course?) In fact, given that you intend to have a voiced Paladin, why not have that be the same Paladin as the one that oversees your "right to wear Power Armor" test/training? It might bring things nicely full circle - they're there when you start and there when you finish.

 

After reading the link, it could go both ways. They emphasize that sponsorship is now the only way to get in, and Danse is highly ranked as a paladin (considering he has his own room on the Prydwen). One could make the assumption that getting his approval (by surviving Arcjet without a decent power armor suit, and potentially also finding Paladin Brandis) was the military training. Then sending you alone to Fort Strong against a horde of super mutants is the final test from Maxson himself. However, I can see the BOS returning to form and providing the player a "The Glow" style mission from Fallout 1. Something like being sent into the Glowing Sea to one of the many unused buildings there to get some "thing" that they need. You'd obviously need a power armor suit to get there (or at least a hazmat suit) and therefore would need to procure one yourself before getting the BOS issued T60 one. Surviving the Glowing Sea at potentially an early portion of the game would prove your worth to them.

 

 

Also, is there any way to convert player settlements into "Forward Bases" for the Brotherhood? Even the farming ones - have them as farming communities under the protection of the BoS. However, this might need some BoS themed snappable settlement objects to construct BoS bases. I love building settlements, but I'd love building bases even more.

 

That would more or less be the aim. After completing Teagan missions, and being an "officer" rank, they'd function more or less the same. Normal settlers would come in, and you'd "sponsor" them to be BoS initiates. From there, they'd function the same as a standard Minuteman/Railroad settlement. Honestly BoS makes even more sense considering you can up and command someone to move to another settlement (or any command really), whereas a normal settler in a Minuteman settlement is just some person moving in. Considering any settlement is fair game for attacks with the new hostile rating system, they'd need to function as bases to withstand constant attacks, and the more bases you have, the more you're managing them (making those that don't want to micromanage be able to use the new paladin to allow the BoS to handle these, and take a more behind the scenes approach). It would probably be ideal to support something like SSEX and/or Homemaker then to provide the BoS objects when designing these areas out.

 

 

It seems like killing him without turning the Broterhood hostile WAS intended to be an option, but it got cut from the release product. I don't think that anyone has found the matching Maxson lines for this yet, if they're there at all.

 

I actually had that in the list of objectives initially, but giving it some thought, I can see why it was cut. The Brotherhood inherently sees synths as weapons of mass destruction even if managed. They would not have the scientific and technical know-how to properly manage synths currently, and they would not have the numbers to properly watch over them all. Considering they are working on synths inside the Prydwen, I'd assume that they're going to need a long amount of time before they could ever even begin to fully understand the workings of a synth, let alone make one. And even then, if they are that step above robots as they already are (intelligence wise), the threat of Skynet still lingers. Danse could malfunction at any time, and then you have a highly skilled and power armored enemy right at your doorstep. Not to mention, if someone with Doctor Amari's know how could get their hands on Danse and wipe his mind, you'd have no clue. You can't wipe the mind of a human.

 

 

An alternate ending / 'use' for the Railroad.

a] PC wipes out the Institute

b] The PC and Brotherhood of Steel "Ally" with the Railroad

c] The BoS starts rounding up all known Gen3 synths in a census and categorising them. Maybe even scanning for them, like vets scan for microchips in pets. "For their own safety." because "Many people still hate you, we can protect you."

d] All Gen3 Synths are now privately declared property of the BoS, as examples of technology, to be constantly monitored and controlled.

e] Synths are now second class citizens, 'belonging' to the Institute. But as the Institute doesn't have any sort of democracy at a civilian level, it's not like they miss out on voting rights or anything.

f] Synths work as civilians. On farms, producing for the BoS, or as researchers, whatever. They get protected by the BoS as a resource, and maintained as such, but not treated as people.

g] Potentially, Synths can join the BoS as soldiers. But they are still monitored, never trusted, and undergo monthly rigorous psych tests. They cannot be promoted past a certain rank. They're probably given the bad missions, too. The ones where you don't care if they die.

h] Alternate Ending for Danse: Paladin Danse remains a Paladin, but can never be promoted further. Very few members of the Brotherhood trust him, he gets whispered remarks wherever he goes. But hey, he still gets to be a Loyal Soldier, so I guess he's sort of happy?

i] DefinitelyNotCommissar people to monitor the synths?

 

I can see a few issues with this one from a BoS mentality, as well as a conflict of interest with the Railroad. For the BoS, see my response above about Danse. On top of that, with the Railroad's know how, it really gives them the upper hand (again, from the BoS's point of view). All they need to do is facial reconstruction and mind wipe of a Gen 3 and turn him into, say, Maxson and you'd never be one the wiser. Or simply mind wiping and/or auxiliary programming for any Gen 3 (since they understand them far more than the Bos) and using them for their purposes. For the Railroad, this is just shifting one form of slavery to another. They want to allow Gen 3's to live as humans, and remove the taboo mindset of everyone in the Commonwealth about Gen 3s being a threat. BoS would approach them as technology (the same way as the Institute basically), and therefore would need to be wiped out as the Railroad does in the current storyline.

 

 

Plastic Witch Hunt:

After the Brotherhood's reaction to Paladin Danse's big reveal is noted (exiled / killed), certain people realise that they have a new, great way to hurt the Brotherhood: to accuse BoS members of being synths. The BoS, in their hatred of synths and general mistrust, is quick to execute these people labelled as synths. By luck (or design) one of those accused genuinely is a revealed as a synth, post mortem. The others? Normal humans. However, the BoS cannot afford to not investigate these accusations. An infiltrator within the Prydwen is planting incriminating evidence on members of the Brotherhood, sewing mistrust and fear within the ranks.

 

It is up to you to get to the bottom of this mystery. How many synths are there within the Brotherhood? Is there really a synth infestation, or is this the Salem Witch Trials all over again? It's time to put on your detective Power Helmet.

 

Potentially, the deeper you go down this rabbit hole, the more it is revealed that some of the BoS synths are genuine memory wiped synths working honestly and devotedly for the BoS. They are unaware of their own identity. What should be done with these people? ARE they people? What does this mean for the Brotherhood and their stance on Synths?

 

Outside of you (and you have an alibi), the rest of the BoS members came from the Capital Wasteland. Danse luckily managed to wander down there and became a member of the BoS, but outside of him and Harkness, the likelihood of synths heading there versus any other direction *and* joining the BoS is rare. They also emphasize that every BoS member has their DNA taken when joining (which I assume also "happens" when you meet Cade). The only reason there is any doubt towards Danse is because the DNA for one of the unaccounted for synths (and the Synth Retention Bureau is draconian about missing synths) matches the DNA for Danse but we can assume all the rest (many of whom can be accounted for in the game) are not in the BoS. And when you listen to the responses, its less about whether anyone else is a synth, and more that they can't believe Danse was such a traitor (and the possibility that anyone was a synth, let alone Danse, was so astronomically low that its inconceivable). However, I can see a possible situation with the adjustments in Brotherhood Overhaul where these new settlers coming in sponsored by you could be synths (its already a possibility in the normal game), and "how" you sponsor them (if its very lazily done versus having DNA taken and perhaps a biometric scanner used to see if a synth component is inside) could result in these missions happening. Then you're forced to clean up the mess that you started.

 

 

I keep hinging stuff on Danse. I guess I'm a sucker for the stoic type. But in some ways, from a narrative perspective, it allows the plotline to integrate into the existing world. And, given his somewhat unique circumstances, I feel there's a lot of exploration into what it means to be a Synth and what it means to be loyal to the Brotherhood. Even to the point of pretty much discarding ones own life. There's so much potential for aftershocks that Bethesda missed there.

 

That and I'm super miffed that I can go full Brotherhood on my character, but doing so prevents me from having a Brotherhood companion. I want to go out into the Commonwealth and kick ass in the name of the Brotherhood beside a fellow Brotherhood soldier. But the quest line of becoming a Paladin in the Brotherhood deprives me of what I feel to be the most important part of feeling like part of the Brotherhood - bros in Power Armor stomping around delivering steely justice.

 

Oh I agree about having a companion to travel around with that is actually part of the Brotherhood. I always assumed that my companion (normally Piper) effectively joined as well. Its a big reason why the overhaul would add functionality like the Blades in Skyrim to actually sponsor the companions to join. Perhaps an alternative (depending upon what dialogue is available) is Cade clearing Brandis and he becoming a companion after Danse is handled? Otherwise, there can always be a new NPC added to fill that gap, or you continue to use Danse (as I have) and never bring him near any BOS areas.

 

Or, you can have facial reconstruction done on Danse (and/or have him keep his helmet on) when visiting BOS areas, and tell him to keep his mouth shut. How would they known whether or not the companion in full X-01 is Danse, Hancock, or Piper? Going the facial reconstruction route coupled with a new voice (as was done on Harkness), he'd get "sponsored" by you, get his DNA taken by Cade, and then you'd need to swap out his DNA with someone else's (not in the BoS) before its analyzed. If you fail, you're branded as an enemy for trying to sneak him back in. If you succeed, he's back in, and they're none the wiser.

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What i'd love to see is the possibility of changing your relationship to the BoS if you are also the minuteman general. It's completely bonkers that neither side attempts to exploit this relationship; If the player is already the general when attempting to start 'Under the Shadow of steel' (sorry forget the exact name) rather than begin a standard recruitment process the player is summoned to a meeting where the BoS makes unreasonable demands of the player (ie leave the minutemen or turn them other to the BoS as an ancillary force), the player then negotiates an alliance where charisma/intelligence checks can get the minutemen more favorable terms.

 

BoS demands could be

Food/ Water (drains the settlement network of x resources)

Hospitality at the settlements (increases bed requirements, BoS patrol teams occasionally visit)

Intelligence on institute activity and rights to commonwealth technology (roleplaying sop, costs the player nothing)

Manpower (occasionally see scribes accompanying minuteman patrols)

 

Minuteman Demands

Training: opens a firing range nearby the airport where minutemen can be seen training with brotherhood supervision. Minutemen level with player

Equipment: MInutemen get a slight increase in equipment quality; fewer pipe weapons, more combat rifles, 44's. Better muskets and hunting rifles.

 

Interestingly enough, if you use the Minutemen to take out the Institute while staying friendly with the BoS, certain members (like Quinlan) approve of the method as better than the losses the BoS would've taken assaulting it directly (which is the case when talking to Teagan after the mission). Danse also will comment that the Minutemen remind him of Lyon's Brotherhood in a snide remark when visiting The Castle. I don't know if the two ideologies would be able to merge though. On the one hand, they are governing the Capital Wasteland and arguably the Commonwealth if you side with them. Therefore any way to govern it without having to actively do it would give them more time to accomplish their goals of scavenging tech, and the Minutemen could accomplish that task for them easily enough with their goals. On the other hand, Preston makes it very clear that you'll need to choose between one or the other. I don't think the Minutemen have a high opinion of the Brotherhood and may not want to be under their command. Then again, if their General is also the Sentinel of the Brotherhood, they can run largely autonomous provided they don't interfere with the overall Brotherhood goals.

 

I love the ideas though. It would be nice to fully integrate the Minutemen into the Brotherhood (as I more or less have it now in my playthrough by having all the settlers wearing BoS outfits including the Minutemen) rather than wipe them out.

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If the player is already the general when attempting to start 'Under the Shadow of steel' (sorry forget the exact name) rather than begin a standard recruitment process the player is summoned to a meeting where the BoS makes unreasonable demands of the player (ie leave the minutemen or turn them other to the BoS as an ancillary force), the player then negotiates an alliance where charisma/intelligence checks can get the minutemen more favorable terms.

 

Or start more reasonably from the beginning. The BoS enters the commonwealth on a giant TOTALLY PEACEFUL SHIP, saying they're here to help the Commonwealth, to win hearts and minds. So why don't they follow it up in their PR campaign? Assuming the character is a BoS sympathiser, which I assume you would be if you had this mod. Instead of demands, it's a 'nice',

 

"I think we can work together for mutual benefit. We want to destroy the Institute, and we need to win hearts and minds to do this. You already have the peoples support, General. We would like to offer our support to the people, in return for you supporting us."

 

Provide the BoS with food and water for them sending vertibirds to deal with Settlement raids so you don't have to, and conspicuous guards in Power Armor at your settlements "here to protect the Commonwealth". You give them food and water, they help your settlements stay alive... and maybe get to build some sweet BoS style defenses into your settlements for flavour.

 

Oh, and the BoS gives you the flares to call down VertiBirds to be taxis. Because what says badass better than the Minutemen General flying over to check on your tiny farming settlement in a tilt-wing gunship before jumping out in power armor? "I brought some new turrets and defenses for the base. Keep up the good work everyone." And then General Badass gets back into the VertiBird and heads to the next settlement.

 

The BoS now has its greatest ally in the 'Hearts and Minds' front - the Errand Boy 'General' (Preston throws that one at you stupidly early) of the Minutemen and Knight / Paladin of the Brotherhood, working to make the Commonwealth a Better Place™. And also an 'honorary' member of the Brotherhood themselves.

 

 

If you've already joined the BoS with the field-promotion to Initiate, Danse has already passed his report on your combat ability and recommendation up the ranks. The BoS itself has done its fieldwork and research on the Minutemen. So now you have not only Danse's recommendation, you provide the BoS an actual genuine use. It at least explains why they're so quick to take you aboard.

 

 

 

I don't think the BoS really cares one way or another. They don't see anyone remotely threatening them coming in with the amount of firepower they have. Everyone else is basically "dirty ignorant wastelanders" with pipe rifles. They're here to stop the Institute because they are after humanity's survival. That just happens to line up with the Commonwealth as the Institute is the boogiemen of the area. Its convenience at best, and probably a main reason why Maxson has peacekeepers visiting Diamond City after the main story is over. It shows they do mean the best for humanity, even if they're not the nicest people in the world accomplishing it.

 

The Prydwen arrival message is probably more safety of the ship itself than anything else. You see this giant thing coming in, you might start shooting at it immediately. The ship + vertibird escort + loud message causes you to think twice. Its flaunting power to subdue everyone. Since the Minutemen can build artillery (and this can be done before they arrive), if that information was passed on, the last thing you want to happen is you get shot down immediately. Whereas the Minutemen would hold if your message is one of peace.

 

I do think there should be more of an opportunity to combine them both. Even if the ideologies don't perfectly line up, the Brotherhood will most likely govern the Commonwealth and want to do this painlessly while accomplishing their goals. The Minutemen want to have the people govern the area, remove the filth like the raiders, and bring peace to the area. Both groups line up.

 

Technically the Commonwealth could be a test run on how the Brotherhood could manage each area. Have a Paladin/Sentinel in charge of an area over effectively a community militia that is sorta kinda, but not really in the Brotherhood (but provides a good testing grounds for the sponsorship program they've instituted). The Brotherhood member ensures they're keeping things stable while largely focusing on scavenging any tech in the area. The militia largely runs autonomously for the good of the people (and that's largely what government is, keeping the masses happy so they don't overthrow you) and occasionally reaching out to the Paladin if they need some Brotherhood assistance outside of what they can handle (which should reduce itself over time). Brotherhood has already wiped out the super mutants, feral ghouls, and raiders while throwing the occasional humanitarian effort out (which Maxson still is open to as he's mixed a little of Lyons and traditional Brotherhood), but they don't go full Lyons. Everyone is happy.

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Or, you can have facial reconstruction done on Danse (and/or have him keep his helmet on) when visiting BOS areas, and tell him to keep his mouth shut. How would they known whether or not the companion in full X-01 is Danse, Hancock, or Piper? Going the facial reconstruction route coupled with a new voice (as was done on Harkness), he'd get "sponsored" by you, get his DNA taken by Cade, and then you'd need to swap out his DNA with someone else's (not in the BoS) before its analyzed. If you fail, you're branded as an enemy for trying to sneak him back in. If you succeed, he's back in, and they're none the wiser.

 

Now, I haven't got past Blind Betrayal (hence some of my ideas being nonsensical), but the most irritating thing I'm not looking forward to is Vertibirds somehow AUTOMATICALLY KNOWING that this one dude in Power Armor is Danse from miles off and trying to turn him into gibs. I personally run with Danse wearing a T60 helmet because I think the voice modulation from it is awesome. Voice changing could be a lot of work - probably better to assume he just keeps his mouth shut in Brotherhood areas.

 

 

 

Also, as for synth Brotherhood replacements... Depending on how quickly the Institute works, they might be able to swap out some of the recon patrols in the Commonwealth. What if we DIDN'T find that scribe dead in that Super Mutant base? Or, more to the point, what if we found a holotape 'from him' saying he'd gone into hiding in another bunker somewhere, and you bring him back like you bring back Brandis. What's ACTUALLY happened is he's been Synth-Swapped. Maybe, somewhere in the wasteland (if you keep your eyes open) you can find the actual holo-tape that already exists in the game, outing the impostor.

 

Or, as a punch-in-the-gut, have Brandis be a synth impostor. Sneakily make him super easy to pursuade. With his apparent psychological damage from the incident, he's being kept aboard the Prydwen. What better place for a synth spy? Stuff starts going wrong, malfunctioning and being sabotaged, abroad the Prydwen. Investigate, find Brandis at the root of it. The guy you 'pursuaded' to come back to the Brotherhood.

 

I dunno. I like the idea of sowing seeds of doubt and fear into the game about the Synths, even within the ranks of the Brotherhood. There just seems to be a lack of gut-punch style betrayals in the game. Not that you need more reasons to hate the Institute with creepy babby-Shaun. We've HEARD about what they can do, about how they infiltrate, but (at least as far as I've got) I've never seen it played to full potential.

 

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I don't think the BoS really cares one way or another. They don't see anyone remotely threatening them coming in with the amount of firepower they have. Everyone else is basically "dirty ignorant wastelanders" with pipe rifles. They're here to stop the Institute because they are after humanity's survival. That just happens to line up with the Commonwealth as the Institute is the boogiemen of the area. Its convenience at best, and probably a main reason why Maxson has peacekeepers visiting Diamond City after the main story is over. It shows they do mean the best for humanity, even if they're not the nicest people in the world accomplishing it.

 

The Prydwen arrival message is probably more safety of the ship itself than anything else. You see this giant thing coming in, you might start shooting at it immediately. The ship + vertibird escort + loud message causes you to think twice. Its flaunting power to subdue everyone. Since the Minutemen can build artillery (and this can be done before they arrive), if that information was passed on, the last thing you want to happen is you get shot down immediately. Whereas the Minutemen would hold if your message is one of peace.

 

Probably not, but I imagine it requires them very little effort to take the time to talk to you to bring you over to their side. Even if you say no, they've still gained important information in meeting you about the Commonwealth and the 'General' of the Minutemen.

 

I guess think of it as a backup plan or insurance. Maybe, in their game plan, they intended to promote you to Sentinel anyway if they were to leave the area, assuming you're loyal enough at that point. There's a lot of advantages to this for the Brotherhood, with very little disadvantages.

  • If you're already General when the BoS arrives, the radio is probably already full of your exploits.
  • You are a great propaganda tool to have as part of the Brotherhood. Maybe you even know this - maybe you embrace it, for the greater good.
  • Maybe that's even made clear when they propose the idea. "Your reputation could do great things. With the Minutemen and the Brotherhood working together, we could bring peace to the Commonwealth. The people know about you, the people trust you. The Brotherhood values that greatly. Here, have some Power Armor." And peace is great for allowing the BoS to continue gathering technology, and a flood of recruits.
  • You've already proven you can take care of your settlements. The Brotherhood probably needs to have minimal involvement in them.
  • You've proven yourself capable at developing settlements - why not develop BoS bases? One less thing for the BoS to do.
  • In fact, what involvement the BoS has with your settlements is probably to their advantage. (Build refuelling spots for VertiBirds. They get refuel points, you get VertiBirds.)
  • Over time, the Minutemen basically become an arm of the BoS through you, the Sole Survivor. Your Settlers get to see the BoS in all their glory, so the BoS gets fresh recruits.
  • Continued presence of BoS Knights and VertiBirds keeps the population subdued and in awe of the BoS.

 

 

I do think there should be more of an opportunity to combine them both. Even if the ideologies don't perfectly line up, the Brotherhood will most likely govern the Commonwealth and want to do this painlessly while accomplishing their goals. The Minutemen want to have the people govern the area, remove the filth like the raiders, and bring peace to the area. Both groups line up.

 

If the Minutemen wanted their goals and ideologies to stay the same, Preston shouldn't have saddled me with "General" in the first few hours of the game. It's his fault if he expected me to be a nice little figurehead. It'd be good if the NPC's tendancy to give you high ranks then ignore you and treat you like a level 1 MMO character came around to bite them in the arse.

 

"I will bring peace to the Commonwealth, by any means necessary. You underestimated me, Preston."

Edited by Athanasa
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Or, you can have facial reconstruction done on Danse (and/or have him keep his helmet on) when visiting BOS areas, and tell him to keep his mouth shut. How would they known whether or not the companion in full X-01 is Danse, Hancock, or Piper? Going the facial reconstruction route coupled with a new voice (as was done on Harkness), he'd get "sponsored" by you, get his DNA taken by Cade, and then you'd need to swap out his DNA with someone else's (not in the BoS) before its analyzed. If you fail, you're branded as an enemy for trying to sneak him back in. If you succeed, he's back in, and they're none the wiser.

 

Now, I haven't got past Blind Betrayal (hence some of my ideas being nonsensical), but the most irritating thing I'm not looking forward to is Vertibirds somehow AUTOMATICALLY KNOWING that this one dude in Power Armor is Danse from miles off and trying to turn him into gibs. I personally run with Danse wearing a T60 helmet because I think the voice modulation from it is awesome. Voice changing could be a lot of work - probably better to assume he just keeps his mouth shut in Brotherhood areas.

 

 

 

Also, as for synth Brotherhood replacements... Depending on how quickly the Institute works, they might be able to swap out some of the recon patrols in the Commonwealth. What if we DIDN'T find that scribe dead in that Super Mutant base? Or, more to the point, what if we found a holotape 'from him' saying he'd gone into hiding in another bunker somewhere, and you bring him back like you bring back Brandis. What's ACTUALLY happened is he's been Synth-Swapped. Maybe, somewhere in the wasteland (if you keep your eyes open) you can find the actual holo-tape that already exists in the game, outing the impostor.

 

Or, as a punch-in-the-gut, have Brandis be a synth impostor. Sneakily make him super easy to pursuade. With his apparent psychological damage from the incident, he's being kept aboard the Prydwen. What better place for a synth spy? Stuff starts going wrong, malfunctioning and being sabotaged, abroad the Prydwen. Investigate, find Brandis at the root of it. The guy you 'pursuaded' to come back to the Brotherhood.

 

I dunno. I like the idea of sowing seeds of doubt and fear into the game about the Synths, even within the ranks of the Brotherhood. There just seems to be a lack of gut-punch style betrayals in the game. Not that you need more reasons to hate the Institute with creepy babby-Shaun. We've HEARD about what they can do, about how they infiltrate, but (at least as far as I've got) I've never seen it played to full potential.

 

 

 

I suppose there could be a device in the Pip Boy that allows you to hear Danse in his original voice. Sorta like how you use the key phrase on Harkness and he returns to his normal persona and voice. You get the device after doing the facial construction/voice modulation. That at least resolves having to record new dialogue completely. I mean hell, we've already got Gen 3 synths being created with new voices. Why not some device that can "hear" a different voice that is otherwise imperceptible to human ears? Shift Danse's voice to the level of a dog whistle. BoS members hear the new voice, you hear the old.

 

As for BoS members knowing, I think that's where outfits shined in both New Vegas and Skyrim. If you're wearing T60 power armor, you're a BoS member from the eyes of others (for better or worse). Same with the uniforms. If you're also wearing a helmet, you're a generic BoS member. Only if they see your face (or hear you) can they have an inkling of who you are (and I'd expect them all to know who Danse is).

 

As for synth swaps, I think the random patrols make sense. I don't think Brandis would make it through as I guarantee Cade has done plenty of tests on him. But random patrol being ambushed by 100 synths, then switched out, is a very real possibility. I doubt they're constantly checking their blood after every mission. Then again, maybe they are during the main quest. I'll have to listen to the Kells broadcasts in the Prydwen as I know a few have been medical related. If they know the Institute swaps out people, there has to be checks and balances to ensure they don't get infiltrated, and they are xenophobic enough to request every member entering a BoS location to be fully tested to ensure they're fully human. And when Ingram/Maxson find out that they can teleport anywhere, you can be damn sure they're doing something then.

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