Comparisons with Skyrim

[Warmaker01]

Well, that's my problem too. Everyone is free to like or dislike the game, but it would be nice if the complaints actually made any sense. There seems to be this urge to try to massage it into some kind of "objective" "facts" for why it's TEH WORSTEST GAME EVAR, even if said "facts" are actually just pulled out of the rear end, or don't even make any sense.

 

If you just don't like the story, or find the shooter too fast paced, or whatever, sure, that's subjective stuff and there's no right or wrong there. We can recommend some mod or another, maybe, but sure, you're entitled to that opinion.

 

But making up stuff about what's in the game, or stuff that doesn't even make any sense, that's a whole other thing.

The funny thing is, even those that like the game like I do, can point to some serious flaws it has. I have 384 hours piled into the game, even with a 28 day break, and by that time I've seen enough of the good and bad. You don't have to make up or exaggerate s#*! to point out some glaring issues this game has. But when people start pulling crap out of their ass with misinformation, it's going to get pointed out.

[Moraelin]

@Charwo

Well, if we're at thinking about an excuse, there's nothing really keeping you from imagining one for whichever FO4 protagonist just like you can for NV. The wife could be an ex-cop who's shot people before, for example. Or an undercover DIA agent. Or a KGB spy. (The KGB was expecially fond of people with university diplomas even inside the USSR. They had very little use for just a dumbass with a gun.)

 

But IMHO in both games you'd eventually get mentally broken, no matter what previous experience you have, so I wouldn't necessarily say that one is better or worse than the other in that aspect. Unless you're a complete psychopath, there's no way a human can take that kind of continuous slaughter.

 

In fact, I suspect that having MORE killing under the belt would just make the problem worse. Recent research suggest that PTSD is basically the brain getting stuck in reliving "simulations" so to speak of those experiences, as an attempt to resolve, basically, "how could I have avoided it?" I think having more baggage to resolve would hardly be an advantage.

 

And it's not even just that games or mods or, for that matter, action movies, don't try to address the PTSD directly, but invariably the unfortunate implication is that the whole characterization is broken.

 

As I was saying, someone would have to be a complete psychopath to just go about shooting a dozen people in the head, yet they also want that character to be an emotional everyman at the same time. John Wick for example is devastated by the loss of the dog from his wife, but has no problems with also being the kind of guy who shoots two dozen guys in the head for it and calmly calls the corpse disposal guys afterwards.

 

That's really my biggest problem. They want the character to be a loving husband and devoted father and all around everyman, but then flip into The Punisher mode when needed, and back to the former when the story needs it. People just don't work that way.

 

And yes, I'll agree with you that I don't think a mod can really tackle that.

[Boombro]

Guys, use can rp that your are training on using guns in the game. Just like FNV.

[JimboUK]

Well, yeah, I know. But nevertheless it's hard not to notice that, for example, James from FO3 was a medic who hadn't shot any weapon in 19 years, and people didn't have any problem with his being able to shoot his way across the DC wasteland in search of a GECK. It's still somehow only if you're a woman that apparently you'd need special forces training to even know which end of a gun to hold :tongue:

 

You didn't really see him do much fighting and when you did it was with a pistol, he didn't go charging around the wastes in power armour mowing down Deathclaws with a minigun.

[Boombro]

 

Well, yeah, I know. But nevertheless it's hard not to notice that, for example, James from FO3 was a medic who hadn't shot any weapon in 19 years, and people didn't have any problem with his being able to shoot his way across the DC wasteland in search of a GECK.

Of course not, he is voiced by liam neeson. He has it in him to be badass.

 

 

. It's still somehow only if you're a woman that apparently you'd need special forces training to even know which end of a gun to hold

Again, they have problems because she has a law degree. Many said they should both been in the army.

For reals, that degree could have been forged for all we know.

 

 

 

You didn't really see him do much fighting and when you did it was with a pistol.

My James fought three super mutes, a deathclaw and four dogs unarmed. I never saw him use one.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

You didn't really see him do much fighting and when you did it was with a pistol.

My James fought three super mutes, a deathclaw and four dogs unarmed. I never saw him use one.

 

There's something not right there, he's scaled to the player, he also should have a pistol, the one that goes outside (There is more than one Dad NPC) has one in his inventory and he uses companion ammo. He's also an NPC, people are talking about the player character being Miss Rambo straight out of the vault, she's rampaging around in power armour with a minigun that she's ripped from a vertibird, it's idiotic and I can't understand why people are looking to excuse it.

[charwo]

@Charwo

Well, if we're at thinking about an excuse, there's nothing really keeping you from imagining one for whichever FO4 protagonist just like you can for NV. The wife could be an ex-cop who's shot people before, for example. Or an undercover DIA agent. Or a KGB spy. (The KGB was expecially fond of people with university diplomas even inside the USSR. They had very little use for just a dumbass with a gun.)

 

But IMHO in both games you'd eventually get mentally broken, no matter what previous experience you have, so I wouldn't necessarily say that one is better or worse than the other in that aspect. Unless you're a complete psychopath, there's no way a human can take that kind of continuous slaughter.

 

In fact, I suspect that having MORE killing under the belt would just make the problem worse. Recent research suggest that PTSD is basically the brain getting stuck in reliving "simulations" so to speak of those experiences, as an attempt to resolve, basically, "how could I have avoided it?" I think having more baggage to resolve would hardly be an advantage.

 

And it's not even just that games or mods or, for that matter, action movies, don't try to address the PTSD directly, but invariably the unfortunate implication is that the whole characterization is broken.

 

As I was saying, someone would have to be a complete psychopath to just go about shooting a dozen people in the head, yet they also want that character to be an emotional everyman at the same time. John Wick for example is devastated by the loss of the dog from his wife, but has no problems with also being the kind of guy who shoots two dozen guys in the head for it and calmly calls the corpse disposal guys afterwards.

 

That's really my biggest problem. They want the character to be a loving husband and devoted father and all around everyman, but then flip into The Punisher mode when needed, and back to the former when the story needs it. People just don't work that way.

 

And yes, I'll agree with you that I don't think a mod can really tackle that.

Well, after reading On Killing by David Grossman, it seems to me there two ways to get PTSD: being involved in something traumatic when you aren't expecting it, but more commonly, being prepped to kill when you prepared to actually kill people. That's the difference between World War II "Combat exhaustion" and Vietnam's PTSD. The guys in Vietnam fired on the enemy, as opposed to over them or not firing, at a rate of 90% versus about 25% in WWII. The problem I have with the female SS isn't that she couldn't handle a gun, its that unless she had extensive infantry conditioning, she wouldn't be firing AT raiders, she'd be firing above them to scare them off. Incidentally, I wished this WAS a viable tactic.

 

We could assume, ASSUME, that transistors or no, On Killing would have been produced and the military would start making operant conditioning to get the servicemen not simply prepped to fire, but to be emotionally ready to kill. Now there are always people, who are not psychopaths, who have no capacity for PTSD, they fire on the enemy no problem, they don't get shook up from being shot at. Alvin York comes to mind, but there's a lot bridging the 1% of psychopaths versus the 25% that fire on the enemy without practicing on human targets.

 

But a mod with positive bonuses for intimidating people and not inciting them would go a long way to make intimidation worth it. That and XP, not unlike the STUN mod. A better mod would be one where you intimidate and they run away and don't respawn or they turn into Settlers or something. I'd love to be able to go to Boston Downs and have all the npcs in the stands be wastelanders enjoying a day at the races.