Why the Institute isn't evil... *SPOILERS*

[DamnedLegionnaire]

So three days ago I completed the fallout 4 story for the first time and chose to side with the Institute. I generally had high hopes for this faction since i had steered clear of any spoilers that came my way and i really thought they could save the commonwealth from disaster with their technology. Their somewhat unorthodox methods for saving humanity were in my opinion necessary since the end sometimes justifies the means.

 

And so I pledged myself to their cause ready to reshape the world and maybe even get things back like they were before. And then father/son says that the actual plan is to stay underground for yet another couple of decades until the time is right... Are you kidding me Shaun? Is this your big plan? Do nothing? You only need me so you could have enough energy to stay underground? Is this the great hope for humanity or is it the great scourge? And then it hit me, they are none of both. They are just cowards.

 

Why institute isn't evil:

 

1. claim: the Institute abducts humans

objection: Does the Institute really abduct humans? Or do they just take back their own synths who were themselves abducted by the Railroad and implanted with new memories to make the synths think they are human? The main quest and Railroad quests cleary tell you that this is the Railroad's main course of action, inan institute quest you even learn that those thoughts can sometimes turn the synth into a complete psychopath like the raider leader- synth you need to get back! The institute has done nothing wrong! They are actually doing the commonwealth a favour since people fear synths walking amongst them.

2. claim: Synths are among us because the Institute uses them as spies

objection: Though there might be a couple of synths doing this for Father's sinister plans, again I think most of those 'spies' are reprogrammed Railroad synths. Railroad are a bunch of good people but their way of acting is damn stupid!

3. claim: The Institute wants to destroy the commonwealth, or something like that

objection: This is not true, fact. Play their storyline and you realise they just want to stay underground! They give jack s#*! about the world, so why destroy it? Father even says the world is already lost. Your main objective is to start a nuclear reactor so they have infinite power in their base.

4. claim: The Institute is the main problem why the people of the commonwealth don't unite

Objection: Are they? Is it their fault the people of Diamond City fear Ghouls and that the Ghouls in goodneigbour hate them for it? Do they interfere with the rebuilding of the commonwealth in any way? Is it ONLY because of them people fear synths? Do they hoard technology like the brotherhood does? Maybe you hate them because they don't help you, but who does?

6. claim: everyone agrees ith Father

objection: Father does some pretty disturbing s#*!..., he even tells you he himself set you free from cryostasis bymeans of a test, with the expectation you would die... but he was happy you made it though! He also made a child-synth of himself, is a leading role in synth creation, wants you to blow up Railroad and BoS etc. When you walk around their HQ however you also hear a lot of opposition: people morally objecting in using synths, scientists who want to help the people above, so no. They arent all that bad.

 

 

Does this mean the Institute are the good guys? NO. They are still assholes, just not the assholes people think they are. I blame them not for creating synths, but for doing nothing. Also as stated Shaun himself is quite evil, cold and calculated, its true! stupid son! You also learn about their FEV, their secret plans and you never knowing the hole picture... Minute men are by far the best. And their synths? well we all know the premise of termnator so this is indeed something dangerous, playing with AI and in my opinion morally wrong. But the scientist in me craves for such a milestone! AI or not is quite delicate and I'll just leave it at that.

 

I hope you liked this, I also have a theory about BoS too! please do tell me what you think.

[Moraelin]

Have you actually paid ANY attention to the game? Because there are plenty of cases of people being murdered and replaced by synths all over the place. Art, Warwick, the guy in Goodneighbour. That's not reclaiming synths, that's people being disappeared and replaced by synths.

 

And that's completely skipping over the other stuff like the FEV experimentation on humans, the CPG massacre, the UP massacre, etc, etc, etc. The reason the people didn't unite was the CPG massacre when they tried. Every single delegate that tried to found a united government was shot in the head by a courser.

 

So basically excuse me if I'm not swayed by an argument boiling down to your being totally clueless to be even making the argument.

[Moraelin]

Oh, and the "oh no, the people in Diamond City were just fearing ghouls" argument is plain old silly, given that the mayor of Diamond City is taking orders from Ayo, the acting director of Synth Reclamation. Read his terminal. So, yeah, if Diamond City's policies were totally against Institute interests, the institute can just tell the mayor to change that.

[Deleted2948850User]

Maybe the Institute in itself isn't evil, but they are misguided in a number of ways. First of all, they suffer from a minor God complex. They believe they're the last hope for mankind, they've successfully recreated the human species but treat their creation as nothing more than stringless puppets and they have a total disregard for life on the surface, not seeing the hardships they put them through (or maybe deeming it a necessary evil).

 

I do believe that their intentions are good, but like I said, misguided.

[DamnedLegionnaire]

@Moraelin you are correct, I actually thought FEV was about creating super mutants while it actually was about abducting innocents for their Mk. III synths so indeed this is pretty bad, but could it be they stopped that when Virgil was in command and they found Shaun? As I said I was spoiler-free and I only placed my direct in-game findings here and I sort of missed it, I don't get a lot of 'extra info' dialogues like there are in Skyrim... , also never hacked the mayors pc. Should do some more digging into that. Just don't immediately gun me down for it. Also heard you sometimes see synths abucting in-game? I never saw something like that even after about 80 hours.

 

@Darkco I couldn't agree more, the up-side however might be that you will become the director so in theory you can guide the institute your way (helping the commonealth for example)

[Moraelin]

@Darkco

Well, evil rarely is a cartoonish matter of just wanting to cause suffering for suffering sake. The most evil people in history may have believed they were doing it for the greater good. Pol Pot probably murdered a higher percentage of his people than even Hitler, Stalin or Mao, but for all we know, he may have actually believed that he's saving his country from the evils of westernization and western intellectualism. Vlad The Impaler may have actually believed that he's restoring order and moral fiber.

 

Hell, even serial killers like Charles Manson or Ted Bundy, had reasons. Manson DEFINITELY believed that he was acting for the greater good.

 

But in the end evil is about what you do, rather than what lofty goals you have in mind. It's that disregard for human life and for the suffering caused that is evil.

 

Having their heads so far up their own rears that they're past even considering the harm done, I'd say that is the damning part, not the excuse.

 

@DamnedLegionnaire

Actually, no, the FEV experiments were completely separate from the Synth programme, far as I can tell. And Virgil's sabotage seems to have only shut down the FEV programme, nothing else.

 

Also, no, if you read Virgil's terminal, it didn't stop when they found Shaun. It was actually ordered by Shaun. Virgil's log makes it clear that he pleaded with "Father" to stop it because there's nothing more to be learned there, but was ordered to continue anyway.

 

There's also a lot of abducting happening, like, right now, so it definitely didn't stop. Sammy in Goodneighbour happens while you're there, and so is synth Art trying to murder human Art and replace him. It's not stuff that happened 60 years ago. It's stuff happening right before your eyes.

 

The abduction of Warwick is also very very recent, if you take the quest in Bioscience that leads you to saving the synth's rear. His acting suddenly different is something that his foreman and wife noticed like, right now, not 60 years ago.

[Deleted2948850User]

It's a shame there isn't any way to redeem the Institute without partaking in some unspeakable acts yourself or without destroying them.

While I personally feel that all factions are at least somewhat misguided in their efforts, none of them truly deserve utter destruction.

 

At least the Minutemen (or rather Garvey) are trying the redeem themselves from the atrocities their faction has committed in the past.

 

 

@DamnedLegionnair: Is it really worth it though? Having to destroy others for a chance to steer them right?

 

 

@Moraelin: While I agree with the evil part, they do deserve a chance at redemption.

[Moraelin]

Well, at least in theory EVERYONE deserves a chance at redemption, but sometimes you don't have the time to give it to them, because you have to stop the harm right now. It might be more important to save a bunch of people now than to see if the ones causing the harm change their mind later.

 

I.e., if they want a chance of redemption, they may want to take it BEFORE the SWAT team kicks in their door. If nothing else, it would go a long way to show that they actually want to change, and not just saying whatever you want to hear under duress.

[Deleted2948850User]

I suppose, but it is a fact that at least some people within the Institute have a decent morale compass. Such as Liam Binet, who knows that some of what the Institute's doing is wrong and is against violence (at least against his people). Also, there's Madison Li, she of all people should know better.

Edited January 5, 2016 by Guest

[Moraelin]

You know you can order an evacuation, right? Anyone who doesn't want to fight you and go down with the institute, can just leave. It's not like you HAVE to execute everyone.

 

Seems to me like if anyone wants to redeem themselves, they can just get their butt to the teleport room, and take their research notes with them. Then they can start doing some good.