Moraelin Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Eh, I'm just taking the piss. As an atheist, I don't believe in a soul, or in Odin for that matter, either. Though, granted, as gods go, it's more fun to not believe in Odin than to not believe in some other gods :wink: That said, IF robots need some metaphysical soul to go to Valhalla, wouldn't the same apply to going to *ahem* Loki's daughter? Pretty sure that if they qualify for that side of the battle, they'd qualify for the other side too, and viceversa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeesmies Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) nothing to see here Edited January 17, 2016 by Jeesmies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraelin Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Gods representing concepts sounds a bit like the original Roman gods. You know, before they mugged the Greeks and stole their gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonlightoverwater Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Dude, Spoiler! Argh! Sorry! Thanks for the reminder. Fortunately, a moderator edited my text so that only those who knew about it would get it! Thank God for moderators, ay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raycheetah Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 A synth mimics human in appearance and it may have complicated programming that simulates thinking but it never will have a soul for it didn't descend from the bloodline of human race. Ad victoriam :D In the case of Type 3 Synths, yes, they did. Father specifically states that they are all descended from his DNA. Whether or not this means they have souls is a subject for another debate, for those to whom it matters. =^[.]^= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcdenton2012 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I believe in atheist god, because atheist god has a great track record with how he uses his powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmonroy Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 No spoiler here, just philoshopical considerations... What makes a human "human"? Since we think and speak, traditionally has been accepted that people is human as long as there is some level of intelligence and communication skills. Obviously, people sharing the same culture and language can communicate better and thus we can relate easily with them as being humans. Not so easy when others are alien to our own culture and use a different language not readily undestandable to us, but eventually -if you mantain an open mind- can attest that they show some kind of intelligence and communicate between them, so we expand our definition of human to englobe them too. Once you get this far, is not too farfetched to imagine that there may be other forms of intelligence not closely related to us as Homo sapiens: precisely the reason why hunting whales and dolphins have become political incorrect for most countries: we can't really undestand what whales and dolphins are thinking, BUT they show intelligent behaviours and highly coordinated group actions when fishing, for instance. So we can safely assume they are intelligent and communicate among them. We also don't have a precise definition of what intelligence is, though it can be showed that intelligent organisms display highly abstract goal oriented actions: looking at a footprint may produce clues as what animal produce it, in which direction it moved and how long ago that happened. It can be argumented that simple animals may not have this amount of abstraction: either the predator is within their sensorial range and thus exists as a threat or it doesn't. On the other hand, an intelligent animal may perceive the footprints as a real threat because they can establish a link between the present and the future (the tiger is not here right now, but it MAY come back). In FO4, some NPCs are designed to act with some degree of intelligence and can communicate abstract ideas. Hence, it is not farfetched to assume that they are something more than "mere" machines. It is up to each player to determine if the term "human" can or can't be applied to other entities unrelated to our own kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeesmies Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) nothing to see here Edited January 17, 2016 by Jeesmies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraelin Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Well, I could get philosophical. I tend to do a lot of navel-gazing. But as the simplest way out, I would propose a test devised by a smarter man than me: the Turing Test. If, when are talking to a human and a robot, people can't tell which is which (i.e., guesses are around 50% wrong), then iz's human enough. Or, as Honest Dan puts it, if even after all they've done to her they still can't tell if she's a synth, does it matter? I'd say it's the premise and canon that they already pass that test. And from a neuro-science point of view, all your decisions, likes and dislikes are the resulr of voting in your brain based on pasr associations (and with a bias based on your brain chemistry baseline.) Whether you follow the tiger tracks or not is basically some parallel processing in your brains, weighing the pros and cons so to speak, based on what you already know or experienced. You can even watch the process happening on a MRI screen. If you can put the same associations and memories in a synth, then that's it. They're not only capable to take the same decisions a human would, but very likely to. So there isn't much point IMHO in debating whether they're intelligent like humans. And finally, consider this: in FO3 you can get a courser chip implanted by Zimmer personally. Into a human. We know it's a courser chip, because it upgrades accuracy, and that upgrade is ONLY installed in coursers. So whatever brain the synths have is either verbatim a human brain, or very very compatible. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't solve the question of whether they have a SOUL, but since I don't believe in souls, I'll leave that question to theologians. But that they have human intelligence is pretty much a fact, I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moraelin Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Being intelligent doesn't mean you are a human, are all the thousands of intelligent species even just in our universe human? No, even if they are far superior in technology and spirituality they will never be the same species, for it is only our species that has been created in the image of god to be the supreme beings of the Multiverse. I dunno, wouldn't uncreated being like the dwarfs or giants rank higher, though? I mean, as creation hierarchy goes, they seem to me like they're on the same level as the Aesir, while humans are one step below. And wouldn't sons of a god, like even beasts like Fenrir or Odin's pony rank higher than the creation of gods, i.e., humans? Or wouldn't werewolves count as higher than humans, since the first was one of Loki's sons? Seems to me a bit impious to put yourself above them, by claiming you're the ultimate critter. Seems to me like, nah, there are plenty higher up the food chain. Plus, I have to wonder in the shape of which god. You know, it being a team effort by Odin, Vili and Ve, and the old legends not mentioning the first humans being specifically in the image of anyone. Would it even be the shape of the soul allfather Odin gave them, or did Vili, who gave us shape, feel free to be a bit creative? I know that, as a modder, I'd sure take my own liberties with the mesh :tongue: Or maybe they had a design meeting? :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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