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ESM v ESP - What's the real story?


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#1
Quetzlsacatanango

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This seems like a good place for this discussion to avoid a lot of clutter.

We know that in New Vegas, there seem to be potential serious issues when plugins are converted from an esp to an esm, such as with fnvedit master update.
Here's how I understand our confluence of errors-

The NV GECK, we have known since day 1, has issues. The worst of which is that it doesn't tell you when you have errors compiling scripts. It just won't save them, except in the case below.

The NV GECK will let you save scripts that use non-persistent refs, even though it shouldn't. For this case, it doesn't give the 'no save no nothing behavior'. It saves and you never knew there was a problem thanks to its lack of error reporting, in essence producing a 'false pass'. Using Geck PU would seem to avoid this issue as it will give you script errors.

The last part of the issue is that the game treats esps differently from esms. For esps, it happily runs the script on the non-persistent ref (even though it shouldn't), and all is well. But when it's an esm, it works correctly - it doesn't run the script on the non-persistent ref, and therefore things that worked as an esp are broken as an esm.

Solution:
Make sure you make any ref that you want to reference in a script persistent, and/or run GECK PU to notify you of script errors.

Does that pretty much sum it up? Paging rickerhk.

#2
rickerhk

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That sums it up nicely.

I've found it in a couple mods so far. I prefer to set the esm bit in any mod that adds new cells , NPCs, and navmeshes. I was really worried that it was another engine bug, because the mod I'm working on is an esm. So I investigated the problem. I think it's pretty easy to forget to click the 'persistent' box when naming a reference, and the vanilla Geck lets you save a script that references the object.

So do yourselves a favor and use the Geck Powerup. The NEW one. http://www.newvegasn...le.php?id=41642

#3
angelwraith

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wait wait wait...
so the mod i did for fallout 3.. the three NPCs there for some reason i could never figure out, they find themselves on the wrong side of the complex with no attempt to get back to their editor locations as the packages suggest.. the navs are connected, balanced, finalized, no holes i mean they should work and most of the time do.. just every once in a while they all end up in that one place and then on out theyre stuck there.


is what i needed a esm conversion? if so ill gladly go back to it to fix it..


but heres the thing.. my NV mod has no issues with the NPCs and i have never made it an esm either, however it is muuuch smaller and the NPC doesnt move at all.. ever.

although the FO3 version had one set to the same setting pretty much and she wandered.. i dont get it.

is this in some way related to esm conversion?

#4
Quetzlsacatanango

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FO3 geck doesn't have this specific issue, as it is kind enough to tell you when you have script errors *and* won't save scripts referencing non-persistent refs.

FO3 probably did have issues with navmeshes in esps, vs esms, I don't really remember. So it might fix your first issue. One way to find out.

#5
angelwraith

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FO3 geck doesn't have this specific issue, as it is kind enough to tell you when you have script errors *and* won't save scripts referencing non-persistent refs.

FO3 probably did have issues with navmeshes in esps, vs esms, I don't really remember. So it might fix your first issue. One way to find out.


actually i just realized something..

you know how sure i am that the NPC is set up right?

you wrote it.

remember the white queen for the hive mod? thats what i am referring to. you actually set her up for me.

ill try conversion and see what happens.. eventually.. i dont even have fallout 3 installed on this machine any more..

#6
Quetzlsacatanango

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:laugh: Vaguely.
I remember doing some dialog stuff, don't blame any navmeshes on me!

#7
angelwraith

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:laugh: Vaguely.
I remember doing some dialog stuff, don't blame any navmeshes on me!


no no the meshes are all me.

and solid. companions never have any trouble there.. its just those three resident NPCs. although i believe it has nothing to do with the NPCs or the navs so maybe this is something i should give a shot.




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