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Golden City already Black when the mages got there?


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#1
mayaslash

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Something really struck me when Corypheus started rambling about Dumat and everything else - he specifically stated that the Golden City was already Black when they (the Magisters) appeared there. I find that really odd, especially considering the characters' reactions to that revelation - they took at is proof that the Darkspawn appeared because the Magisters supposedly defiled the City, but if it was already Black, how could they be the ones to defile it? And doesn't that point out that it was already defiled before they got there and/or it means that it has always been Black and their so-called "Creater" isn't benevolent at all, if it even exists?

This is all very curious and I sincerely hope we'll finally get some answers in DA3.

#2
OdanUrr87

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They were tricked, simple as that.

#3
mayaslash

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That much is obvious, but by whom? Did the Dragon know what they would find? What was the point of the Dragon tricking them if it knew it wouldn't end well for anyone?

#4
ishmaeltheforsaken

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Perhaps the Old Gods were tricked as well. By Fen'harel perhaps.

#5
mayaslash

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Yes, well, it's been known to troll other gods.

#6
brokenergy

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Perhaps there was no Old God or the Maker. Maybe the Maker is in fact a mage who traveled into the fade and didn't like the Magisters taking his powers so he cursed them with his magic from the fade. Maybe the Magisters were infact trying to save all of Thedas but failed. Maybe... just maybe.

#7
sendo75

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Speculation:

It appears that the Black City was falsely rumored as the Golden City in hopes of tricking people to seek what was sealed within, the Blight. The magisters are probably the only ones powerful enough to do this and were the pawns of this sinister plan. They were probably seeking for more power, immortality, religious enlightment etc. From a technical pov, if the city was golden, the magisters would have at least seen the last vestiges of the Golden City before it got corrupted. But Corypheus was genuinely shocked at what they found, so it seems safe to assume that this faux Golden City is actually the Black Blight.

If the Old Gods wanted the Blight released, it seems weird that the Blight is turning against them, so speculating an imposer like the Elven God Fenharel seems to fit. The Old Gods were supposed to be in slumber, if they were able to manipulate events, I would think the remaining Old Gods would have done something significant to stop the Blight. Flemeth's dark ritual in extracting the essense of the Old God could be a part of this, though its hard to tell who benefits.

So it seems that religious doctrines might be based on distorted truths and Gods might not be what they appeared to be. So it is unclear who are the benevolent Gods among the Maker, Elven Pantheon, Old Gods and Paragons assuming they are not fabricated.

Edited by sendo75, 04 August 2011 - 01:30 AM.


#8
mayaslash

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Your speculation is what makes the most sense so far. To me, anyway.

Well, the Paragons are real existing people, err, dwarves, whatever, so we do know they are what they claim to be.

I had the same thought about what Corypheus should've seen when he got there - the City blackening around them (the Magisters). I was just surprised why the characters didn't ask themselves the same question instead of going "The Magisters corrupted the City, the legend is true!"
I too find it odd for the Old Gods to want to release the Blight that harmed them as well - both corrupting them and leading to the end of their Worship, among other things.

The only thing I confuses me a little is why you and everyone else seem to think that Fenharel or some other Elven deity is behind this. I mean, there's no indication about that. What would it have to gain? Though that's applying human logic to a Cthulhu-like being... XD Maybe it just did it for the evulz.

As for Flemeth, personally, I am 95% sure that she's one of the two remaining Old Gods. Morrigan said in Witch Hunt that she was no mage, no abomination or a witch, and Flemeth's own words in DA2 seem to indicate something like this. Maybe the purpose of the ritual and Morrigan's pregnancy was to save the last of Flemeth's brethren?

#9
brokenergy

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I agree so I'm going to say this; Flemeth isn't an Old God or a dragon or Fenharel, she's a Magister who got away with it all. You heard it here first. And Flemeth is really trying to stop another Magister from taking everything she has from her.

#10
sendo75

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Well, the Paragons are real existing people, err, dwarves, whatever, so we do know they are what they claim to be.

The only thing I confuses me a little is why you and everyone else seem to think that Fenharel or some other Elven deity is behind this. I mean, there's no indication about that. What would it have to gain? Though that's applying human logic to a Cthulhu-like being... XD Maybe it just did it for the evulz.

Was thinking dwarves would have their Gods since other races have theirs so maybe these Paragons ascended into Godhood through their worship but that could be a stretch.

As for Fenharel, this god was prime suspect because of his notoriety, betrayal and trickery in Elven legends. He allegedly betrayed both good and evil gods and sealed them within their realms. Below is quoted from codex.

And that is how Fen'Harel tricked them. Our gods saw him as a brother, and they trusted him when he said that they must keep to the heavens while he arranged a truce. And the Forgotten Ones trusted him also when he said he would arrange for the defeat of our gods, if only the Forgotten Ones would return to the abyss for a time. They trusted Fen'Harel, and they were all of them betrayed. And Fen'Harel sealed them away so they could never again walk among the People.


Trickster God posing as Dumat or tricking Dumat into thinking Black CIty holds some secret to freeing their imprisonment by the Maker. Both scenarios reeks of divine trickery.

As for Flemeth, personally, I am 95% sure that she's one of the two remaining Old Gods. Morrigan said in Witch Hunt that she was no mage, no abomination or a witch, and Flemeth's own words in DA2 seem to indicate something like this. Maybe the purpose of the ritual and Morrigan's pregnancy was to save the last of Flemeth's brethren?

I agree so I'm going to say this; Flemeth isn't an Old God or a dragon or Fenharel, she's a Magister who got away with it all. You heard it here first. And Flemeth is really trying to stop another Magister from taking everything she has from her.

Been said that she isn't a mage but I think she was a powerful magister who encountered one of the Old Gods in the Fade and made a deal which led her to be possessed by a small part of the Old God's consciousness. Base on what she said to Hawke and how Morrigan described her. Her dragon form hints on the connection to Old Gods. Her dark ritual on extracting Old God essence also hints on her unique knowledge to such powerful beings.

No idea why Morrigan is afraid of Flemeth and what Flemeth wants from Morrigan or her other daughters. Maybe to harvest Old Gods essence and help them reborn.

Edited by sendo75, 04 August 2011 - 12:12 PM.





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