Why was Negative Endorsement removed?

[Sagebeat]

I am sorry you guys feel this way.

 

But a LOT of mod authors like myself and Quetzlsacatangango wanted this removing.

The community demanded it be removed, or at least changed so it's no longer food for trolls.

Dark0ne would not have removed it if the demand to remove it was not huge.

 

On the contribution side of things.

If mod authors do not want something on their mods, then its their opinion of it that matters, surely?

 

I'm sorry but the reality of the situation is, it's gone. It won't be coming back.

They were never good for anything, end of.

 

 

How can you say that when the majority of people in this thread alone feel differently? Why cant we work towards a compromise instead of the modders coming in and deciding that the only person's opinion that's important, is their own?

 

Do I need to go host my mods to get your respect? Do you think so lowly of us as to just definitively state whatever we think is moot?

[Sagebeat]

Edit: Many mods have an overwhelming amount of comments, what your asking is basically that we spend at least 20-30 minutes combing a forum for each mod installation. Tack on the fact that many of us run our games with over 100 mods easily, you've turned what was a simple glance into a grueling process. I've mentioned this twice though, at least i'm not making YOU comb through the entire thread to see the points I have already made, now try to see mine!

[Quetzlsacatanango]

You should feel blessed that you got the content at all

Whether you contribute or not.

 

If you're paying me, you can expect some level of support, catering to your whims, etc.

Until then you will take what I give, no matter how little or how much that is, and like it, or you can wait outside by your mailbox for a full refund of your purchase price.

 

I'm gonna step out of this thread now because it can probably only go downhill, anyone feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.

[KDStudios]

Actually I am not using my "title" to look down upon you.

I am using my title to show that I know exactly what negative endorsements are and how useful they are to not only the mod users, but the mod author themselves.

 

They were of no use, they provided no incite as to how to improve my work or what do look for in the future.

All of the constructive criticism I get that actually matters and I value is that in the comments section or the discussion tab (when it's actually used)

 

You say there are too many comments?

As a mod author I am on top of all my comments and read each and every single one, I try to reply to them also. I usually succeed :P

 

Remember: If there is a problem with the mod, it will be posted on the first page of comments.

If it's a popular mod, a lot of people will reply with the same problem.

So what is the problem, really?

 

I am sure Dark0ne will introduce something in the future that will enable users to provide... Reviews perhaps?

However until then, read comments. They are gold.

Endorsement comments were made separate from normal comments, that made it easier for people like you to read the comments that are not just "omg great mod" and actually content that is important to the mod you're viewing :)

[Vagrant0]

To imply that they didn't exist at all is exaggeration, and you know it.

 

An example offhand would be a particular combat overhaul mod that introduced many new options, including dual wielding, and equipping weapons in different ways to change attributes, it had roughly 200 endorsements, and almost 200 negative as well.

 

Lo and behold, hours later after dealing with the mod, it not only not work, but also corrupted each save I had it installed and saved onto.

 

The new system no longer protects me from issues such as this, and to ignore that fact because catastrophically bad mods are rare is missing the point entirely.

 

You don't call 911 every day, but you sure as hell would miss it when its not there when you need it.

 

Why was it removed?

Modding a game, at its heart always has some involved risk of breaking saves or parts of the game. Often people would make non-endorsements because they did not install the mod properly, or just because it contained some element (usually sexual) that they disagreed with. More often than that people would say a mod doesn't work without ever explaining what the problem was... leading to entirely useless feedback and a non-endorsement. Then there were those who would just go out of their way to try and downrate a mod because they didn't like a person.

 

Everything beneficial about it could still be done by leaving a bug report or quality feedback.

[Sagebeat]

I agree that a review system would fix all of this, without leaving a large red blemish on a mod with no actual input on the matter. Regardless of that, I can see Quetzl's reasoning behind his philosophy, but I just cant agree with it when so many mods are downright detrimental to those who download them potentially, and now there's no way to protect the community from these in worst case scenarios. With the recent pop ups of Oblivion modding communities from various countries, and new download spots opening up all the time, i'd hate to see an institution like the nexus become marginalized because of something like this. Already I have to visit multiple sites to mod the game the way I want and talk and contribute to people. I've been here for 6 years! I just haven't been very vocal. ;D

 

We should see what Dark has to say on the matter! :)

 

 

"Endorsement comments were made separate from normal comments, that made it easier for people like you to read the comments that are not just "omg great mod" and actually content that is important to the mod you're viewing "

 

 

^ You dont see a problem with this? I would have to rate up the mod to go into the endorsement section, to complain about critical errors with the mod?

Edited August 26, 2011 by Sagebeat

[Gopher]

I am torn on the negative endorsement issue. I freely admit to hating it and people who use it on my mods :) But several people have made compelling cases for why it is useful and I find it impossible to argue with their logic. The problem for me is that even after giving a thumb down, the person in question is free to keep downloading my mods, visiting my pages, getting my advice etc. And I am sorry but some of the thumbs down are for the single dumbest reasons possible. eg Unified HUD Project gets a thumbs down because the guy could not get Darnified UI working because he didnt install the fonts correctly!? And why is that my mods fault? *pulls out hair*. Things like that drive me nuts. I know I should ignore it, but its hard to be the better man :P

 

I say put the negative endorsement back, but give mod authors the option to block that user from any and all their pages for both comments and downloads. I mean if they thing an authors mods are that bad, they should not object too much not having to suffer them any more? :)

[Sagebeat]

I am torn on the negative endorsement issue. I freely admit to hating it and people who use it on my mods :) But several people have made compelling cases for why it is useful and I find it impossible to argue with their logic. The problem for me is that even after giving a thumb down, the person in question is free to keep downloading my mods, visiting my pages, getting my advice etc. And I am sorry but some of the thumbs down are for the single dumbest reasons possible. eg iHUD gets a thumbs down because the guy could not get Darnified UI working!? Things like that drive me nuts. I know I should ignore it, but its hard to be the better man :P

 

I say put the negative endorsement back, but give mod authors the option to block that user from any and all their pages for both comments and downloads. I mean if they thing an authors mods are that bad, they should not object too much not having to suffer them any more? :)

 

This sounds like an idea that would work! It's already so hard to endorse down nilly willy, just as it was to endorse up the same way. So if your complaining that the thumbs down is exploited, we all know the thumbs up is as well. Force a retratction of the thumbs down if the person for some reason wants to re-download a mod they've disliked so strongly that they've spent their hard earned time thumbs downing it?

 

We aren't looking to simply go back to negative endorsements, a system that benefits both sides is a much better solution.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Sagebeat

[CBLong]

I disagree with you about as vehemently as I am able. I think your attitude an unfortunate one. It states that, because I do not upload mods on to this site, I am a worthless peasant unfit for any scraps you deign, in your benevolence, to leave me, and that I should be thankful for every bit of effluence that trickles down to my lips, no matter how vile it may be. I exaggerate, of course, but you seem to imply that all mods are, by their very nature, good, and that no criticism is valid. You wish to insulate the mod-maker from criticism completely. Yes, you may well get some frivolous down-votes. Yes, some people may even use the system to troll. But it should be easy for you to disregard frivolous down-voters and trolls, and I feel that, even with the flaws inherent in the design, it is a worthy one because it alerts the casual browser that not all may be well, and it alerts the mod-maker that there may be something flawed with his creation.

 

Why do you mod, if not out of love? For the game itself, for the joy of creation? As you mention, you make no money from this. Yet you choose to use your time in modding, and then to upload your creation to share it with the world. And if you mod from love, wouldn't it be ideal to strive ever closer to perfection, to ferret out any flaws and remove them? Criticism is necessary in all endeavors, unpleasant as it is. It is a bitter drink, there's no denying that. But to remove criticism promote complacence and encourages mediocrity.

[KDStudios]

To imply that they didn't exist at all is exaggeration, and you know it.

 

An example offhand would be a particular combat overhaul mod that introduced many new options, including dual wielding, and equipping weapons in different ways to change attributes, it had roughly 200 endorsements, and almost 200 negative as well.

 

Lo and behold, hours later after dealing with the mod, it not only not work, but also corrupted each save I had it installed and saved onto.

 

The new system no longer protects me from issues such as this, and to ignore that fact because catastrophically bad mods are rare is missing the point entirely.

 

You don't call 911 every day, but you sure as hell would miss it when its not there when you need it.

 

Why was it removed?

Modding a game, at its heart always has some involved risk of breaking saves or parts of the game. Often people would make non-endorsements because they did not install the mod properly, or just because it contained some element (usually sexual) that they disagreed with. More often than that people would say a mod doesn't work without ever explaining what the problem was... leading to entirely useless feedback and a non-endorsement. Then there were those who would just go out of their way to try and downrate a mod because they didn't like a person.

 

Everything beneficial about it could still be done by leaving a bug report or quality feedback.

 

Exactly my point Vagrant.

 

If they were actually useful and provided something beneficial for all I would gladly be with everyone here and request it be returned, but it was not.

Anything that reflects negatively towards a mod or mod author will always be exploited by someone, it's the way of the internet unfortunately http://www.thenexusforums.com/public/style_emoticons/dark/unsure.gif

 

 

I agree that a review system would fix all of this, without leaving a large red blemish on a mod with no actual input on the matter. Regardless of that, I can see Quetzl's reasoning behind his philosophy, but I just cant agree with it when so many mods are downright detrimental to those who download them potentially, and now there's no way to protect the community from these in worst case scenarios. With the recent pop ups of Oblivion modding communities from various countries, and new download spots opening up all the time, i'd hate to see an institution like the nexus become marginalized because of something like this. Already I have to visit multiple sites to mod the game the way I want and talk and contribute to people. I've been here for 6 years! I just haven't been very vocal. ;D

 

We should see what Dark has to say on the matter! :)

 

Well Dark0ne has already made his view on the matter in his latest blog, he's not impressed that after a huge campaign to have it removed. Completely unrelated people to the matter "crawled out of the woodwork" to voice their request for it back.I have to agree with him, it will be frustrating to see that.The security of the nexus is not at fault however, the users are safe and any mod that is reported usually gets removed shortly after. If a mod is bad then most people will comment on it saying so. No mods are dangerous here, Vagrant has a point. Most of the time they were just installed incorrectly.It's the users prerogative to backup their ini files and their saves, all mods have the potential to corrupt them.