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Blender/Nifskope Smoothing Errors


jkruse05

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I've been working on creating a new barrel for the Institute laser weapons. The model uses a modified vanilla asset with some parts removed and new ones added. When I finally export and get the model into nifskope and/or the game I end up with smoothing and lighting errors all over the model.

 

Here's my workflow.

 

Export mesh from .ba2

Import into Nifskope

Export as .obj

Import to Blender 2.49 (I know, I know, there are newer versions)

Make edits. Made two cuts with the knife tool before adding new verts/faces

Export as .obj

Drop .obj into Outfit Studio

Export as .nif

Open in Nifskope and I get this

 

 

I suspect the issues lies either with the knife tool cuts, or with the switching between .obj and .nif. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough with Blender to know what exactly is causing the errors or how to fix them. I've tried adjusting the smoothing groups and removing duplicate vertices, but neither seemed to make a difference, even together. I've also tried separating my new geometry so the old and new vertices aren't connected (technically adding more double verts). That didn't seem to work either.

 

So, anyone out there know what I broke and/or how to fix it?

Edited by jkruse05
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Just a note, you can use the current version of Blender with the current .nif export.

 

These details are critical http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/10525-blender-27-nif-exporter-tutorial/

 

I've only been able to do statics, weapons and some clothing, certain pieces have bone weights that I loose (I suspect to be the problem). Someone mentioned outfit studio can help as a transition tool (haven't tried that).

 

My workflow.

Extract sample.nif - NifSkope export .obj - Blender Edit, export .nif (using link details, as Skyrim style) - Elrich.exe (in FO4 folder) Convert to FO4 style .nif - NifSkope paste geometry over existing 'sample.nif' and correct all branches to use the new geo, Save .nif

 

I haven't tried but apparently the CK can export models as .fbx. Which you could open in Blender and then follow the rest of this workflow. Seems likely the .fbx may retain more of the weight painting, rigging and bone info than an .obj from NifSkope may.

Edited by MasterMagnus
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Just a note, you can use the current version of Blender with the current .nif export.

 

These details are critical http://www.darkcreations.org/forums/topic/10525-blender-27-nif-exporter-tutorial/

 

I've only been able to do statics, weapons and some clothing, certain pieces have bone weights that I loose (I suspect to be the problem). Someone mentioned outfit studio can help as a transition tool (haven't tried that).

 

My workflow.

Extract sample.nif - NifSkope export .obj - Blender Edit, export .nif (using link details, as Skyrim style) - Elrich.exe (in FO4 folder) Convert to FO4 style .nif - NifSkope paste geometry over existing 'sample.nif' and correct all branches to use the new geo, Save .nif

 

I haven't tried but apparently the CK can export models as .fbx. Which you could open in Blender and then follow the rest of this workflow. Seems likely the .fbx may retain more of the weight painting, rigging and bone info than an .obj from NifSkope may.

This seems helpful. I'll give the .fbx export a shot first. Just wish I could salvage what I've done, UV mapping is such a pain.

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If you're using Outift Studio, then untick smooth seam normals as it'll smooth them even if they're over 90 degrees. If you use the latest nifskope, you can re-apply seam smoothing, but it also has the ability to choose the angle degrees of smoothing so flat faces aren't trying to smooth to another face 90 degrees to itself.

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I've been working on creating a new barrel for the Institute laser weapons. The model uses a modified vanilla asset with some parts removed and new ones added. When I finally export and get the model into nifskope and/or the game I end up with smoothing and lighting errors all over the model.

 

Here's my workflow.

 

Export mesh from .ba2

Import into Nifskope

Export as .obj

Import to Blender 2.49 (I know, I know, there are newer versions)

Make edits. Made two cuts with the knife tool before adding new verts/faces

Export as .obj

Drop .obj into Outfit Studio

Export as .nif

Open in Nifskope and I get this

attachicon.gifbarrel.png

 

I suspect the issues lies either with the knife tool cuts, or with the switching between .obj and .nif. Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough with Blender to know what exactly is causing the errors or how to fix them. I've tried adjusting the smoothing groups and removing duplicate vertices, but neither seemed to make a difference, even together. I've also tried separating my new geometry so the old and new vertices aren't connected (technically adding more double verts). That didn't seem to work either.

 

So, anyone out there know what I broke and/or how to fix it?

There are a number of reasons that could be happening. I'll list them off.

1. First off make sure to recalculate your normal on all your objects.

2. It looks like you have a mirror modifier on which can give you bad results down the center if you don't apply it.

3. From the looks of it you have a lot of very thin tri's at the corners causing that elongated black line. (Skinny tri's are not good for vertex shading.) But if they are on a flat plane it shouldn't matter to much.

4. And I think this is your real problem, any edges you want sharp you have to edge split with "v". There is actually several ways to do this, you could use the edge split modifier which doesn't always the results that you want requiring some manual tweaking still. Or you can dot it all manually. This only creates more verts which are not resource intensive. In your Data tab for an object it has an Auto Smooth setting that you can check on to quickly see what and edge split will do. (you have to adjust the angle) IMPORTANT: Do not use auto smooth for final results you have to split the edges, auto smooth is only for quick checking. And while you're at it triangulate your mesh if it isn't already. :tongue:

 

http://www.katsbits.com/tutorials/idtech/what-are-smooth-groups-and-mesh-smoothing-on-models.php (This could also help you.)

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1. Normals have been recalculated, although I usually end up having to flip a few manually.

2. The original model clearly used a mirror modifier, but it didn't survive the import. I'll see about re-applying it.

3. Thin tri's might be the issue, or at least part of it, I'll try to clean it up.

4. Edge split is most likely what I need. If I do it with an angle of 0 will that force some of those seams to flatten out? Triangulation is good :thumbsup:

 

In the past I've typically gotten by with just setting faces to smooth or solid, looks like those days are over.

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4. Edge split is most likely what I need. If I do it with an angle of 0 will that force some of those seams to flatten out? Triangulation is good :thumbsup:

Ya, basicly with the edge split modifier active it does the same thing as the Auto Smooth just it actually splits those edges when it's applied. So with an angle of 0 it the same thing as flat shading and every edge in your mesh will be split not exactly what you want. Basicly you want to adjust the angle to a point where almost all the edges you want sharp are sharp and all the edges you want soft are soft. If a few of those edges are not acting like you want thats ok the majority of the work is done you just have to go in and split or merge the offending edges depending on what you want. Easiest way to check what is split and what is not is to select a vert on a section of your mesh and hit "L" that will select the island that that vert is connected to.

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If you're editing meshes, beyond moving them as a whole or scaling them, don't touch them. Don't use the knife tool, don't bevel, don't do ANYTHING to it besides general stuff. Unless exporting them from .NIF to .OBJ destroyed the doubled verts, check your import settings for Blender: make sure it's set to 'Keep Vert Order' on import.

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