A quick question about permission for a mod(s)

[leonardo2]

I posted this question since I wanted to know how to do things in the CK and I needed to ask, because I cannot figure it out myself how to do certain things in the CK hence my question.

Someone suggested this mod since it does the same thing I asked about, but after I looked at the permission the mod author had I asked myself. How far can I a mod author go when it comes to permission?

My question is; Do you think a mod author can restrict anything for being used in other mods without obtaining permission first?

Asset use permission

You must get permission from me before you are allowed to use any of the assets in this file

What asset is the modder talking about and TBH I don't understand what exactly the asset might be or have I missunderstood something.

[Surilindur]

You could create your own version from scratch without looking at that other mod. For example, you could try changing a condition in the WICommentNaked quest "Quest Dialogue Conditions" to something that will never evaluate to true. That should do the trick. Like the GetRandomPercent to < 0 which never happens (spoiler).

 

 

 

 

 

Recreating yourself from scratch without looking at that other one might be best. You can still credit the author for "inspiration" or something to be fair. Or that is what I would think. Changing dialogue conditions might be a bit tricky to "register", I think. Like changing the weight of Septims to 0.2 or such. But that is just my opinion.

[leonardo2]

You could create your own version from scratch without looking at that other mod. For example, you could try changing a condition in the WICommentNaked quest "Quest Dialogue Conditions" to something that will never evaluate to true. That should do the trick. Like the GetRandomPercent to < 0 which never happens (spoiler).

 

 

untitled2.jpg

 

 

Recreating yourself from scratch without looking at that other one might be best. You can still credit the author for "inspiration" or something to be fair. Or that is what I would think. Changing dialogue conditions might be a bit tricky to "register", I think. Like changing the weight of Septims to 0.2 or such. But that is just my opinion.

I think I'll do just that and that's to *fix* the problem myself from scratch.

 

Thanks for the information. That's just what I was looking for. :smile:

[ddavies10693]

If you're worried, it may be best just to ask the original author, just to cover yourself. The moderators have a zero tolerance policy for theft and it can get your entire account banned indefinitely. Everyone is much more aware of theft since beth.net has become such a big problem.

[Surilindur]

If you're worried, it may be best just to ask the original author, just to cover yourself. The moderators have a zero tolerance policy for theft and it can get your entire account banned indefinitely. Everyone is much more aware of theft since beth.net has become such a big problem.

 

Maybe it would indeed be best to ask the original author. Stealing is bad, but it is difficult to lay claim to something simple and easily replicated, especially when others might do it in another way entirely, and when it is done from scratch. I think. But that is just my personal opinion, and you should take it with the usual absolutely overwhelming grain of salt.

 

Also, Leonardo, there was a global variable that was connected to the original condition, and you can actually change that instead, to prevent the GetRandomPercent from ever being true by setting it to -1 for example. It would save you from making changes to the actual comment quest. This one (in the spoiler):

 

 

 

 

 

And just to repeat: it was my own opinion. Leonardo can indeed ask the author of that mod, just to make sure no issues will arise.

 

Edit: Read what DrakeTheDragon wrote below, it is worded a lot better than my half-minded ramblings. It is always better to be safe than sorry, and a certain sense of politeness is good: asking never does any harm. :blush:

Edited June 23, 2016 by Contrathetix

[DrakeTheDragon]

I posted this question since I wanted to know how to do things in the CK and I needed to ask, because I cannot figure it out myself how to do certain things in the CK hence my question.

 

Someone suggested this mod since it does the same thing I asked about, but after I looked at the permission the mod author had I asked myself. How far can I a mod author go when it comes to permission?

 

My question is; Do you think a mod author can restrict anything for being used in other mods without obtaining permission first?

Asset use permission

You must get permission from me before you are allowed to use any of the assets in this file

What asset is the modder talking about and TBH I don't understand what exactly the asset might be or have I missunderstood something.

 

 

For what it's worth, according to the rules in place on Nexus, in Bethesda's EULA, and by law, yes, they can.

 

However, the question is what makes an "asset" in this regard. Of course any external resources, made from scratch or derived from the original game's, are by default protected by the 3 the moment they're released to the public. These definitely qualify as protected assets they can put any restriction what-so-ever onto whenever they feel like it.

 

The same goes for less tangible resources as well, like blocks of text inside a plugin, a certain placement of items/architecture/actors/whatever on a map, etc. You needn't copy the whole ESP entirely for it to be a violation, if the assets contained inside it are easily identified.

 

But in this case I think it's safe to assume "asset" means the ESP file itself only. So if you go and download it, then open and modify it, then release it on your own, sorry, violation. The actual minuscule changes done to the records inside though, if it's only switching a couple flags or whatever, everybody can come up with the same idea without even knowing each other.

 

However, certain "ways to go about it" can very well fall under copyright protection depending on how inventive or unique they are. They say you cannot copyright protect an idea, but it certainly has to be decided on a case-by-case basis to prevent the one just "ripping off" the other.

 

Other than that, I agree with what the others have said. That would be the most advisable way to go about it here.

[leonardo2]

If you're worried, it may be best just to ask the original author, just to cover yourself. The moderators have a zero tolerance policy for theft and it can get your entire account banned indefinitely. Everyone is much more aware of theft since beth.net has become such a big problem.

Why, do I really need to ask another modder about doing something that might the same as the other modder already have done in a separate mod. I see no reason why I should do that.

 

I'm well aware about the policy that exist on Nexus regarding mod theft and I assure you, I don't plan to nor do I will ever do such a stupid thing.

 

 

I posted this question since I wanted to know how to do things in the CK and I needed to ask, because I cannot figure it out myself how to do certain things in the CK hence my question.

 

Someone suggested this mod since it does the same thing I asked about, but after I looked at the permission the mod author had I asked myself. How far can I a mod author go when it comes to permission?

 

My question is; Do you think a mod author can restrict anything for being used in other mods without obtaining permission first?

Asset use permission

You must get permission from me before you are allowed to use any of the assets in this file

What asset is the modder talking about and TBH I don't understand what exactly the asset might be or have I missunderstood something.

 

 

For what it's worth, according to the rules in place on Nexus, in Bethesda's EULA, and by law, yes, they can.

 

However, the question is what makes an "asset" in this regard. Of course any external resources, made from scratch or derived from the original game's, are by default protected by the 3 the moment they're released to the public. These definitely qualify as protected assets they can put any restriction what-so-ever onto whenever they feel like it.

 

The same goes for less tangible resources as well, like blocks of text inside a plugin, a certain placement of items/architecture/actors/whatever on a map, etc. You needn't copy the whole ESP entirely for it to be a violation, if the assets contained inside it are easily identified.

 

But in this case I think it's safe to assume "asset" means the ESP file itself only. So if you go and download it, then open and modify it, then release it on your own, sorry, violation. The actual minuscule changes done to the records inside though, if it's only switching a couple flags or whatever, everybody can come up with the same idea without even knowing each other.

 

However, certain "ways to go about it" can very well fall under copyright protection depending on how inventive or unique they are. They say you cannot copyright protect an idea, but it certainly has to be decided on a case-by-case basis to prevent the one just "ripping off" the other.

 

Other than that, I agree with what the others have said. That would be the most advisable way to go about it here.

Oh, that was news to me.

 

But what I wonder about is that, if a modder can restrict other peope from doing the same thing from scratch, especially when in this case it's just to make sure that NPC's doesn't say a "You're naked" comment to the player in-game, because if that's the case then I think the permissions for the mod I linked in the OP probably need to changed to let say "You are NOT allowed to merge this mod into your mod without my permission and claim that you're the author for the mod in question then release it" or similar.

 

Simply put, I don't think anyone can have permissions for a simple thing as the mod in question seems to have. Having such permissions will defineitely cause a lot drama in the community, un-necessary drama if you ask me.

 

Also note that I haven't downloaded the mod I linked to in the OP and all I did was to look at the picture that Contrathetix posted then doing the same thing in the CK. Which I did and my mod seems to work as intended in-game. Here, I posted a few pictures.

 

I consider merging a mod, with a different author than yourself, into your mod to be the same as mod theft.

 

 

 

@Contrathetix: Thank you so much for posting the first picture, which was just what I was looking for. :thumbsup: Right now I'm testing the mod and everything seems to work as intended in-game. Again thanks for your help. :smile:

[DrakeTheDragon]

Basically, when you do it "from scratch", then it's always your's. But "from scratch" in many cases also entails not using your knowledge of how someone else did it to your advantage without investing any time yourself into finding a way on your own. Inspiration is fine, copying is not, and then there's some exceptions.

 

It's sometimes rather easy in fact. When someone reports your mod as stolen/copied/whatever from another mod/author, they'll also need to provide proof for that, "or" the situation must be so obvious that staff will have no doubt it's indeed an infraction.

 

"This guy set the armor value of the item to 50.0 just like I / the other author did" is not going to fly. That's way too generic and everybody could've come up with the same idea without even knowing of each other.

 

And if it's a truly unique and rather inventive way of approaching it, yet you still happen to have come up with the same idea on your own, there'll still be fine differences in the details, enough to support your counter claim.

 

If it becomes evident the plugin in question was either directly copied or just modified in order to create another plugin, it will be distinguishable from cases where it just so happens to only end up the same.

 

If you copy all 500 hand-picked tweaked armor and weight values from one plugin into your own, even though it's neither a direct copy nor an unauthorized modification/derivation, it will still become evident where the actual work was coming from and that it's just a means to rip another author off.

 

In case of this specific plugin, I don't know what was done in order to achieve the goal, but if it actually only was something everybody else could've easily come up with themselves without referencing/analyzing/etc. this mod at all, staff will see it.

 

This isn't always black and white, and it isn't always easy to find the truth, but the staff is rather well-versed in dividing the actual infractions from the pure coincidences and also from the unsubstantial claims of infringement in cases where it's just not worth pursuing instead.

 

"I colored the moon red, now nobody else is allowed to do the same" is definitely not going to fly, ever.

 

And if you go like "oh, hey, that's some truly neat way of doing it! I think I'll do it the same.", then I think it's safe to assume that also common courtesy and mutual respect already dictates that you at least ask first.

 

And for the records, the number of authors truly going to make a fuss about it and say "no", when you told them their neat little approach was so inspiring you'd be interested in doing the same yourself in your own mod, that I am aware of I can count with my left hand only, seriously.