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Windows 10 4GB VRAM Limit

windows10 vram limit enb directx win10

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#11
prinyo

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So many posts and no one points to the solution/workaround.

 

ENB Boost (correctly configured) from http://enbdev.com/

 

It will not allow the game to use more memory, instead it makes Skyrim use two times less memory.

 

Under Win 10 the game in fact crashes when it reaches 3.1GB of memory usage. And it is really easy to reach it. 

 

The second part of this video helps with the configuration: 

 


Edited by prinyo, 01 August 2016 - 02:34 PM.


#12
darstyler

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<So many posts and no one points to the solution/workaround> <Under Win 10 the game in fact crashes when it reaches 3.1GB of memory usage>
 
Seriously, read the previous posts, particularly those showing links. Follow these links and read.
 
This is about VRAM limitation relative to Win 8-10 + GPU >4GB VRAM nothing to do with RAM.

Making ENBOOST using illimited VRAM doesn't override the limitation imposed by GPU drivers, that make the game unstable each time you reach the limit of 4GB. But if you have a reliable solution, many people here will be all ears opened.



#13
prinyo

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I might be (and probably am) completely wrong but I was under the impression that Skyrim keeps the textures in both RAM and VRAM. So you can't really use all the VRAM if the game crashes at 3.1GB anyway (both RAM and VRAM limits will kill it).

I've read a lot about this and tried to understand as much as possible with my limited understanding and the only thing I understood is that it is not possible to change the limitations and the only practical solution is to optimize the memory usage of the game - what ENB Boost does. 

 

I've been trying to read and try to understand more about all this graphic setup stuff, but it is not easy because all the forums about it are full with people who shout at each other and the technical discussion is always in the shadows of everyone trying to explain to everybody else how stupid they are. It doesn't help that different people have different understanding about how things work.



#14
darstyler

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As I already said follow the links and read, Boris vorontsov post on Nvidia forum. Posted 08/06/2015



#15
prinyo

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It would be really great if somebody explains all this in terms more people can understand, including myself. 

The thread you point to has all the problems I was talking about - it is toxic, it is way too technical when it is on point and everybody seems to have their own idea about how things work.

This last problem is actualy the most serious for me in trying to understand what is going on.

 

STEP explains this: http://wiki.step-project.com/Guide:ENB

AMong other things it says: "This means that although TESV.exe can only use a maximum of 2GB of system RAM on 32-bit Windows systems, it can access up to about 3.1GB of system RAM (4GB - about 900MB of system resources) on 64-bit systems. To drive the video card in displaying Skyrim's 3D rendered graphics, TESV.exe must store object geometry (the shapes of things in the game) and texture data cached in its memory space, which is then copied to your video card's VRAM to display."

Hence my understanding that because the meshes and textures are duplicated even if there is no limit on the VRAM the game will still crash because of the RAM limit.

 

Further STEP explains that "ENBoost overcomes this memory limitation by ...

  1. using available VRAM on your video card 

"

And also " The effectiveness and performance of ENBoost is determined by a number of factors, such as size of system RAM / VRAM"

 

This seems to imply that with ENB Boost you can actually use the additional VRAM that you have if you have it. Or not?

 

At the end my understanding is that ENB Boost works by reserving VRAM and RAM for itself and then "providing it" to the game. So I would image running it does in fact help Skyrim use more of the VRAM you have than it would have used without it. In other words, it changes the VRAM cap. No for Skyrim itself, but for the Skyrim-ENBBoost combo which for the player means more RAM and VRAM available.

 

Again, this is based on my lamers understanding after reading quite a lot of threads and reddit posts. If I'm wrong I would really appreciate any corrections.


Edited by prinyo, 01 August 2016 - 06:55 PM.


#16
darstyler

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If the creator of ENBOOST himself says "Fix of the problem is very simple and do not require much effort from driver developers", I don't need further explanations and bet he already tried everything. Apparently, no matter what you do with ENB settings, they don't fix the problem.



#17
Gabby2805

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It would be really great if somebody explains all this in terms more people can understand, including myself. 

The thread you point to has all the problems I was talking about - it is toxic, it is way too technical when it is on point and everybody seems to have their own idea about how things work.

This last problem is actualy the most serious for me in trying to understand what is going on.

 

 

 

I agree, I literally have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore...



#18
Reynard131

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It would be really great if somebody explains all this in terms more people can understand, including myself. 

The thread you point to has all the problems I was talking about - it is toxic, it is way too technical when it is on point and everybody seems to have their own idea about how things work.

This last problem is actualy the most serious for me in trying to understand what is going on.

 

 

 

I agree, I literally have no idea what anyone is talking about anymore...

 

 

 

 

Simple enough,

 

 

 

You should also understand the VRAM has nothing to do with FPS that is determined by GPU and VRAM memory controller bandwidth.

 

 

TESV.exe has a well documented 3.1 Gig system memory usage limit.

enbhost.exe uses deferred rendering to break up the rendering workload on into another process, therefore able to circumvent the memory usage limit.

Direct X 9 shadows the frame buffer into the system memory,and virtual memory with a user/driver determined number of pre rendered frames that are shadowed prior to entering VRAM

VRAM acts as a FIFO (first in first out) buffer to the GPU, Do not think of these as static terms.

 

Good drivers effectively make use of what ever your physical System/VRAM happens to be.

 

This is why from a vanilla install I recommend that people put in Sheason's Patch and ENB boost.

 

On the bright side when you receive the the updated game in November, it will be 64 bit and should solve most issues.
 


Edited by Reynard131, 02 August 2016 - 03:20 AM.


#19
darstyler

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From latest ENBOOST  version 6.3 Last updated 27 Feb 2016 :

//////// Patch work with both x86 and x64 OS, but to see full potential i advise to
run Windows Vista/7 x64. Less effective will be with x86 versions of XP/Vista/7.
Windows 8 and Windows 10 from users reports have limitations of available video
memory
, while some Windows 7 users have much more available, so it's the best OS
for modded Skyrim at this moment, especially for videocards with more than 4 Gb VRAM.///////

 

  • This corresponds to the Reddit topic where users say they are experiencing freeze, fps drop with such specs. I didn't read the whole thread but correct me if I'm wrong, only Nvidia users seem to have this problem. (?) STEP doesn't cover this issue.
  • On the other topic on the Geforce forum, first post Boris says : "PS: please, no silly things about 32 bit limit here, amount of available video memory can be tested by my VRamSizeTest, it allocates RTs till fail creating new one."

This should be enough to prove these are two different things. One can be adressed by ENBOOST with appropriate settings, the other can't, because depending on OS limitation and drivers. So the next version of skyrim should not help in that matter.



#20
prinyo

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From what I understand the VRAM cap for DX9 applications is added by Microsoft, not by any of the GPU manufacturers.

But it only affects DX9 games. It is expected the Skyrim RE to be DX11 so there will be no limit anymore.

 

This is what the tool provided by the author of ENB shows on my PC. 

 

Attached File  dx.jpg   24.46KB   2 downloads

 

First window - Skyrim now, second window - expected Skyrim RE.

 

To make things easier, I think we can agree that Skyrim faces 2 different limitations:

- RAM - been a 32bit app it can't consume more that 3.1GB of RAM

- VRAM - been a DX9 app it faces a 4GB VRAM limit, arbitrarily added for unknown (or no) reason

Those two are completely unrelated to each-other. (This is what the thread on the Nvidia forum is mostly about).

 

Also as the game puts it's eggs in two baskets - the meshes and textures are duplicated in RAM and VRAM, removing one of those limits will not help much.

 

The confusion seems to start when ENB Boos is added to the picture.

Been an independent process that has it's own caps my logic says that the total limit for RAM and VRAM for the ENB+Skyrim combo should be greatly increased. 

Also what I've seen in my game is that the reported memory usage of Skyrim itself is 2 times less with ENB Boost running, which led me to believe that the rest is "outsourced" to the ENB. 

 

However judging by the fact that the author of ENB complained about the VRAM limit on the Nvidia forum and some people reporting problems when they hit 4GB it seems the VRAM cap is not increased. Again there are lot's of points of view about how it works and why.

 

The way I understand is that ENB Boost can provide RAM, but not VRAM and this is where I was wrong in my previous post. When Skyrim consumes it's 4GB of VRAM it will continue to expand into "fake" VRAM - as in RAM that ENB provides under the disguise of VRAM. But as the RAM is not fast enough graphic problems start to appear in the game. It will not crash, but there would be problems. 

 

So it seems I was wrong - ENB Boost can help the game not crash when it reaches any of the two limits, but it will not help it use more than 4GB of VRAM regardless of how much you have.


Edited by prinyo, 02 August 2016 - 08:13 AM.






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